Miles & Mountains
Join Nick, a social worker and coach by day, as he unravels the inspiring stories of athletes and the public, uncovering the motivations behind their actions, from conquering mountains to participating in ultra-endurance races and competing in rodeos. Get ready for heartwarming tales of community support, acts of kindness, and the revelation that everyone has a deeper story to tell. Whether it's running, climbing, or participating in rodeos, these stories will inspire and uplift. #Running, #Climbing, #EverydayAthletes, #Rodeo
Miles & Mountains
Guest Appearance on James Lauriello’s The Steep Stuff Podcast
Episode is released as a guest appearance on James Lauriello’s The Steep Stuff Podcast. Go listen to the episode on his podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-steep-stuff-podcast/id1736139061?i=1000691423168
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Thank you James. I am honored to be on your podcast. Thank you for the kind words and the opportunity.
This episode highlights the significance of self-advocacy when faced with health challenges, the emotional fallout of diagnosis, and the power of community support.
• Reflecting on the early days of running
• Navigating the discovery of a serious health issue
• Importance of self-advocacy in healthcare
• Emotional and mental challenges of a cancer diagnosis
• Finding solace in the running community
• Impact of treatment on physical and mental well-being
• Embracing future goals and the joy of movement
• Encouragement for listeners to advocate for themselves
• Celebrating resilience and community support
Thank you for tuning in, and don’t forget to advocate for your health!
Nicholas Coleman. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. My friend, how are you?
Speaker 2:Hey James, it's good man, I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. I'm glad to be here. It's weird, man. It's weird. It's like you're on my podcast but then I'm on yours and it's a conversation it's a conversation.
Speaker 1:Uh, dude, so we can, we can, we'll back this up a few, a few years. This is back march of 20. Maybe it was like it was either march or january of 2023. I came on your your podcast to do an episode when I first time, the ultimate direction was like back then, and, dude, I was this just young green person that knew nothing about the sport, knew nothing about anything. I still don't know much about anything. But, yeah, man, it was, it was crazy.
Speaker 1:Going all the way back in time was kind of reflected on it today, before our conversation, um, big shout out to the miles and mountains podcast, which will obviously you know, this will be shared on as well. But yeah, man, it's good to finally have a chat with you. You were the inspiration for this podcast. You were the one who pushed me in the direction to do it when I originally thought about it and had kind of brought it up to you, you know, years back, and you were like, yeah, you should definitely do it and you told me I'd be a natural and all these things.
Speaker 1:So dude, I appreciate it man, it's good to finally finally have a conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm glad you, you know you move forward and took my advice and didn't think I was joshing. You, you know, and, dude, and uh, congrats on your success. And uh, the people that you've been on, and you, I mean, you've already sponsored dude. Come on, man, you made it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. We haven't made it yet. We got a lot of ways to go, but it's getting.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it you made it then. Then you got married and then you were on the. Well, you were on the podcast again, correct? We had a couple meetings we did. Yeah, you got married, dude, and you're still young man. What are you talking?
Speaker 1:about. I just turned 34 two days ago. Three days ago three days ago I'm getting old.
Speaker 2:Old man, You're younger than I am. I was laughing about this.
Speaker 1:The other day. It's so much harder to recover in your 30s, I don't know. Actually, recovery was really easy until two weeks ago and then I'm like man, I'm really sore, this is really hard. So I don't know if it's me getting old or me just training a little harder than I probably should old or me just training a little harder than I probably should.
Speaker 2:So it happens I'll say that what's going on in the great, in the great pacific, northwest these days, man, uh, just cold, yeah, freezing cold, man freezing cold and yeah, just, I don't know, like I'm running stair climber, you know that kind of thing, trying to stay warm, trying to stay warm and out of the sickness, you know, uh, the, you know, having cancer. Is that okay I?
Speaker 2:just say that talk about set, yeah having cancer all year last year and not know it until the tail end. It really took its toll, you know, because I'm like something's going on. I, I think I'm sick. Things are hitting me a lot differently. You got a bump or two, you know, but this one bump is bigger than the other and it makes you, uh, makes you worried and you don't want to get sick because you know you have Dr Bill's and then you don't want more Dr Bill's. So I did everything and anything I could to avoid people and germs. So I totally get what you're going through with your podcasts and stuff.
Speaker 1:So it's funny because we were talking about before the episode started for the audience. Like we were you called me out or not called me out?
Speaker 1:but we were joking around, because I do mostly in-person podcasts and over the last month or two, I used it as a crutch for it's it's two things. I use it as a crutch because, well, one, um, you know, zoom has been easier since we moved, just because you know I haven't had the pod studio ready. But two, I had the last in-person podcast I did. Someone brought me like a nasty I don't know if it was the flu or what and I was like after that I was like dude, I like it, like took like solidly knocked a week off my training and I was like you know, I'm gonna keep doing zoom for at least a few more weeks and so I've been using it as a crutch. But we'll be having kyle richardson's coming on pretty soon and that's gonna be in person.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah it's good so, but like, along with that, you know, um, I work with a bunch of kids at the local high school, everything else and I also, you know, took a step back of not just coaching but just a break during winter break, just so I could stay away from germs. Man, you know, I've always been not not so much a germ phobe, but, you know, well aware, and yeah, this was like on steroids uh, just making sure hand sanitizer, you know, I didn't wear a mask but I made sure my hands and body was clean and if I had to go anywhere around my mouth or anything, I made sure Kleenex was around. I still like that because being sick really makes you think about life, man. And I had that moment of just like, oh my goodness. And I had that moment of just like, oh my goodness, because you know, my family is very healthy.
Speaker 2:You know, not just my immediate family now, but just growing up. You know my dad did Boston Marathon four times. You know, three or four times, did all kinds of marathons I ran. You know, my, my brothers, they do their thing.
Speaker 2:Just, you don't think about having cancer at all you know, and you're so young and active too, dude yeah, well, thank goodness I am active and and thank goodness I, you know, I, I found it and was aware and said something, spoke up and advocated. That's like my job anyways, but advocating for myself is pretty difficult just because you stir the pot. Well, the other thing is.
Speaker 1:This might rile some people up, since we're starting so early here.
Speaker 2:What I was going gonna say was yeah dude in our medical system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you really gotta speak up and advocate for yourself, because the most, most and I don't think this is too controversial to say this but like most of the times you're going to a doctor, like, if it's your general physician, like, unless you're really like pushing and saying like something's wrong, I need a blood test or I need this test or I need that. Usually it's like oh well, you've got the common cold or you have this, that and the other, you know, wait a few weeks and then, if it comes back, come back and see me and you'll see a specialist, you know, and that's the yeah, super common, you know yeah well, I dealt with this, uh, right before I went to go see my dad.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, my dad passed, you know. But the last time I saw him, you know, I had like this vertigo and I'm all like whoa, what the heck? You know, I was at work, felt like I was drunk. That's the weirdest feeling ever, dude. You're at work and you're going to pass out. Yeah Well, that lump. I noticed the lump. I'm like man, it has to be the lump and maybe stress.
Speaker 2:But I go to the doctor. I don't have a PCP, I don't have a primary care provider, I have the VA, right, and so I go to get help. I go just to urgent care. Well, they kept telling me it's all in my head. It's all in my head, you know, take this, take some vertigo medicine. So I did that for like two months, take some vertigo medicine. So I did that for like two months. It kind of went away. Well, dad passes and everything else. I'm going in and out of the hospital and I'm like, all right, what's going on? So I'm trying to get approved through the VA to see local hospital you know, community care, as they say because the va takes forever just to go and get in the facility so they're like it's community care, so I can see somebody outside the va but va pay for, and so, from like april all the way till end of september, I finally got a doctor who is uh september, I finally uh got a doctor who is uh certified uh breast cancer surgeon.
Speaker 2:You know she does the oncologist right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, well, not oncologist, just general surgeon. That is, uh, well known to the breast cancer patients and everything else. And so you know, throwing out mammograms, and you know you being a guy, you don't ever think about that, you know. So that was floating around. She basically spearheaded the whole situation. Come to find I got a, got cancer. Well, dude, when you find out you have cancer and they don't, they don't tell you everything. They said it on the phone on a friday man, and you know, on a friday, oh my, yes. So from that friday to two weeks, and when I had to go see them, dude, my mind was just racing panic.
Speaker 1:Is it more panic or dread? Like, how does, like what goes through your head, especially because you're you're a father and you gotta yeah, dude, oh my god because you're so young.
Speaker 2:That's the reason I say this yeah, yeah, it's not like you've lived your entire life, like you've got a lot of time left, man it was a, it was a dark place, man, it was a dark place and, like I was saying earlier I'll go back to that like I was saying earlier, you know, when you're, you never think of anybody, including yourself. We'll have the C word. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's the you, you don't. And so when you find out you have cancer, you're like, oh my God, you're, you're, I was in a dark place, dude, like I know, a lot of people say, oh, I was in a dark place, man, I was drinking, I was drinking and I shouldn't have, you know, and I, the only thing I could, I can do, was work out and drink, dude, and I, the meat, the moment I got off of work, I went to the bar and I made sure I didn't come home.
Speaker 2:I don't want, you know, my, my kids to see it, but I was, uh, drinking, drinking, drinking and more drinking should have, and just trying to cope and uh, the, the two weeks were the worst week, two weeks of my life, man, man, you know, and I lost my dad this year, lost my father-in-law, you know. And uh, in September, it's been a hell of a year, you know, and um, those two weeks, I'll never forget it, but I will, I will want to forget it, just because of the place that I was in, man, I just didn't feel. I didn't feel my like myself, you know, I just wanted to cope and alcohol was my coping mechanism, you know.
Speaker 1:Which a lot of people turn to man.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not saying that that's healthy or not, but like, obviously you've got to deal. I mean, put it this way, as someone that's other than like situations I put myself in in, whether it's in the mountains or doing something stupid, it's very strange to to contemplate your own mortality, right? Yeah, when you're faced with something like the c word, um, you know, when it's something entirely out of your control, for the most part, right other than you know, you can go through certain medical things and go through that. Obviously it's a different conversation. But like when it's entirely out of your control at first, I can't imagine what you were going through when, when someone, especially when they call you on the phone, it's not like they can't, they can't even tell you a person the hell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, and she was off on a friday too, so she stayed later or she went into work just to call me. Yeah, I thanked her, I thanked her, but also I thanked her, like you know, saving my life pretty much and, um, informing me that I do have something, instead of it's all in your head, you know well, dude, I can't believe.
Speaker 1:So maybe, like, let's talk timeline a little bit here, just because, um, you know, I think for, especially for people listening to this like I I can't stress it enough is like the advocation for yourself, but it sounds like the timeline is a really long time that passed, um, you know, for people telling you that, well, it's on your head, you know yeah you know, and then you continue to search for answers like how many months was that over the entirety?
Speaker 2:I noticed it and went to the doctor, because january 18th is when I wanted to go see my dad in Indianapolis, um, in the hospital. So I went, probably, I believe, the 15th of January, 16th of January, to the doctor and since then, to September, um, playing the game of oh man, I'm a gram, well, if he doesn't get a mammogram, of, oh, mammogram, well, when? If he doesn't get a mammogram, we're not gonna pay for it. You know this and that. So I was like man, just give me the mammogram, oh, it's not needed, you know. And civilian doctors saying this, that. So it was just back and forth, back and forth and I was going along with it. I I didn't want to stress too much about it, but, um, just do what va uh told me to do. You know, just because, seeing the bills now, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna piss them off, yeah yeah, it's crazy, and that's another thing is the how expensive it is, man yeah dude, what was the cancer you would ultimately diagnose with?
Speaker 2:hodgkin's lymphoma, but it's a rare type.
Speaker 2:So it's uh, it, it. It messes with the, the, the B cells. It turns the, the cells, the blood cells, into popcorn like shape, um, you know, as it pops, you know, um, yeah, it's weird. The moment you, you learn more about it, you're like, huh, this is weird. But, uh, it is. Uh, what is it?
Speaker 2:Uh, nodular lymphocytes, predominant Hodgkin's lymphoma, and it's a rare type. I'm going to have it for the rest of my life. I'm going to have to, um, you know, know, be vigilant and check my body, check every you know lymph node. I had it in my armpit and around my neck. They found that. But uh, yeah, that's what, that's what I have. And they said I caught it early. And, uh, it's not an aggressive one. But, man, I'm so glad I got it when I did, because I dude, I couldn't imagine, because it feels like it's late. You know what I mean? I got it. They were playing with me, but they said I got it early, it's a less. They said this is the cancer that you would want to have. I'm like, oh, okay, sweet, even the rare type. Yeah, a lot of laughs, a lot of giggles, a lot of sarcasm.
Speaker 1:I was trying to get you to smile because I was going to say I would never know. You look great.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, man, like the first day I met you.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I'm free like the day first day I met you. So, yeah, well, I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, so and you've been going through treatment now, um, you want to talk about that a little bit, like what has been? What has the treatment process been like? Have you been able to? Because and for the audience that doesn't know this, like dude, you're a straight up ultra runner. Like, you've run plenty of races, you've done a lot of adventures in the mountains oh yeah has going through treatment.
Speaker 1:Are you starting to set little goals for yourself? Like all right, this is what I'm going to do after you know this, when the summer rolls around, like are you starting to change your mindset a little bit, or what does that been like so?
Speaker 2:the moment, the moment, the moment I knew what cancer was going to be, um and uh how it's going to be, I stopped drinking. I always had that problem, man, yeah, you, I always had that problem, man, yeah, yeah, no, I always had that. You know I had a love-hate with alcohol, you know that's how my dad passed, and every time I knew he would, you know, nonstop drink, I'd stop drinking, you know. So I basically found out and I was like, okay, well, vegas for the nfr, because you know that's part of the podcast. Love, I love the rodeo, love the western lifestyle. Don't really live it, but I promote it because it's fun. You know it's. It's wild times, man. So, uh, I'll be honest with you, man, I took my wife for the first time, went, went to a concert. I had three beers the first night, three beers the second night, got really sick. I got like I think I ate bubble gums and got really sick. Man, spend the whole day in in the shower, if you know what I mean. My last day in Vegas and the shower.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um had fun. Uh, not that day, and that was the last time I drank and that was the first weekend of the NFR, so like the 8th, the 5th or the 8th of December and doing pretty good man, I've been around. Alcohol, yeah, but Diet Coke it is, man I know, I never thought I'd drink diet.
Speaker 1:Coke. I didn't know it was zero calories. I'm not going to lie. My sister drinks diet Coke, Dude the zero what the hell you drink that for, but sure enough, zero calories, dude. Yeah, it's the good stuff, apparently, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. So I'm kind of a connoisseur instead of sewer of alcohol. But um, so that, following I got back on that sunday, I started my first treatment on friday and I just, uh, took the treatment. You know, god, dude, it felt like the next day felt like I got hit by a bus. I know people say that cliche, but man, body ached, joints ached, headache, out of control for four days, you know, and I still went to work.
Speaker 2:I took the weekend just to recoup and try to get the body and mind right. So you know, a lot of ibuprofen, or not ibuprofen, a lot of Tylenol, because you know it does something with your blood and whatnot. So they tell you tylenol, tylenol. So first first treatment, four days, dude was just terrible headache. So I did a lot of stuff. For the second week, you know a lot of prophylactic stuff, preventative measures, a lot of tylenol. You know, maybe not do this instead of that. For the second treatment, second treatment was the following Friday Turned out to be okay.
Speaker 2:Third one Same as the second one. Fourth one Did you know? I presented myself doing the same thing. I was ready, I was go, and the fourth one hit me worse than the first one. It's like, oh my gosh, I thought I had it. I had it in shape, man, I was good to go and no, six days headache, man. I went to work afterwards too, but I managed, thankfully. You know my work. I had, you know, christmas break, just like the high school kids, you know, and use that as just recover and just do what I can and be there for the kids and kids at school and just do my job.
Speaker 1:What has that been like on my channel from from work perspective? Is it just like added extra pressure having to go to work every day while you're going through this? Or is it like does work take your mind off of it? Like? What has that been like?
Speaker 2:work takes my mind off of it. But, uh, they're having budget issues so it's like, oh man, that was more stressful. Yeah, that's more stressful than anything. But just knowing that you know I love my job, I do it great, I'm very good at it, and being there for the kids and just being able to get my mind off of the cancer itself was a good thing for me. So work is never a problem, man. I would consider myself a workaholic kind of.
Speaker 1:There you go, yeah I like work, I like work. It's where you and I differ, man, oh my god if I could just run in the mountains every day, that's what I would do I would yeah, but yeah, yeah, you get paid for that though, yeah, not enough. Not enough to survive the mortgage man um I got you, I got you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, now it's. I can't imagine what treatments, what it's like now. Your treatment was different a little bit. I don't know if you want to go too deep into this, but like you did not do chemo, you did it's a localized, yeah, infusion localized infusion.
Speaker 2:Um, it's rituxim rituxaban, it it's the same man. It's weird how they use this medicine, certain medicines for certain things, and you know they have multiple, uh, ways of treatments and stuff, but it's the same thing as rheumatoid arthritis, but with a twist. I think that's how I, that's how I read it. Man, scientific dude, if I was a scientist or if you wanted scientific wording and everything else, I wouldn't be in the field that I am in today. So, um, good luck with that, but I believe it's a similar to the rheumatoid arthritis. Uh, when people do their treatment, like maybe once or twice a year or something like that, um, it's all in the veins and it's all day treatment. So you get there. I got there like eight o'clock. It started at 815 and didn't get done until like three or four every each time and you just sit there contemplating, is it?
Speaker 1:pain seen.
Speaker 2:No, no, it wasn't painful. No, it wasn't the they, I don't know. Man, uh, what would you consider painful, like the, the meds going in your arm?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I just wasn't sure, like if. If it's like I don't know, I'm gonna get real I'm gonna get real, that wasn't painful.
Speaker 2:The painful thing was seeing other people in pain and, uh, going through stuff. That's worse, I'm sure. Or you know what we consider, what I consider worse. Um, that was more painful than anything. But like I was saying before the this episode, and sorry, to get real, I don't want to get all.
Speaker 1:No, no, please do, please do Dude. It's your story, it's your story.
Speaker 2:The cool thing is man is I'm not used to that kind of care and the Tri-Cities Cancer Center in Richland, kennewick, washington, was out of this world caring. I've never been through something like that, never had that care. Um, it's. It's hard to say, man, because I'm used to the va, I'm used to the army care. You know the treatment, not having a pcp, to having someone say do you need anything? We're here for you. They're there every 30 minutes. You know taking, you know vitals, making sure you're comfortable, and, uh, when you're, they're doing that it's. It's like everybody had their little um cubicle kind of thing you know to be comfortable, TV chair that you sit in. You know doing chemo and whatnot.
Speaker 2:But I think the worst, the painful part, was seeing other people in pain and going through treatment that is worse or a cancer that is worse than yours. You know, yeah, that's quite the sight. But man, dude, the, the care is out of this world. I, I give it all to their care.
Speaker 2:Man, just because once I found out like how it was, um, it set the tone for like, okay, I can do this, you know I can do this and I'm gonna work on myself, I'm not gonna drink, I'm not gonna, you know, do other things. I'm going to, strictly, you know, do what the doctor orders and I'm gonna better myself because, man, you see some guys, see some people, that's just it's not good, you know, and so I don't want to, you know, take advantage of my treatment and, uh, just want to pay it forward. You know, make sure, you know, people get looked at. If something's not, if something's foreign, go look at it, you know, get it checked out. And that's that's the cause that I've been doing ever since I found out that I had cancer get looked at, don't hesitate.
Speaker 1:I think you had an absolutely beautiful post on Instagram, on your podcast Instagram, and you said something very close to along the lines of that and you've been a significant advocate for it. I think that's like I said I can't hammer this home enough. I think that's something that I said I can't hammer this home enough. I think that's something that people you know need to constantly talk about and it needs to be something that's conversated, just because in our medical system right now it's it's a freaking train you know, and that's not a it's um.
Speaker 1:you know, it's definitely something that people need to do is advocate. So for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, that yeah. I never thought I'd advocate for cancer man, just like I said earlier, I'd never thought, when I was, you know, growing up, that I would have cancer period, you know and nobody thinks about that.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you have, you're like, oh my God, and you just think you think of the darndest things.
Speaker 1:We're going to. We're going to go deep with this question and you can. You don't have to answer this. I'm just very curious just because, like I said, I've only been faced with mortality. You know I've been very lucky through life, as probably many people have, and you know you're only faced with your mortality for the things you put yourself in um, as opposed to outside forces like cancer and things like that. Has it changed? How does it change the way you look at life? Like do you I? And the reason I say this is because I think very deeply on this level like every now and then, when I'm wasting time at work or something, I realize like, oh my god, I just wasted a day and I'm like you don't get too many of these, you need to stop wasting days and live life. Do you look at things a little bit differently now? Has it changed your perspective?
Speaker 2:not, not so much. Um, the one thing I have changed is just the outlook and workouts man, yeah, yeah, dude you like, yeah, like more, you hate them more, like what's the?
Speaker 2:if I need to walk, I, I'm okay with walking, okay, okay. Before before it's it was like dude, I need to go balls to the wall. You know it's go big or go home. Yeah, now it's like you know, if I get a mile in just pure running and then walk for two miles and do another mile, you know it's, I'm good, I'm good man, and as long as I'm moving, I'm, I'm, I'm satisfied. Before, dude, I have to go get a full-on sweat, because you know, that's just life, just how I measured everything. Now, it's just I'm moving, I'm happy and just getting it out. Man, now it's like, uh, instead of music, I'm listening to audible books.
Speaker 1:That's not like me, dude. What's it like Are you? Do you find? Do you find more enjoyment in nature? Are you getting outside more? Is that helping at all? Too Like cause I gotta, I gotta understand, I gotta guess that, like not just being sick, wise cancer, but like mental health, it's going to take an absolute toll on you too. So the outside has got to be an outdoors. It's got to be a giant help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank, thankfully, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a social worker. So mental health is you know? Uh, definitely, I advocate for that. And uh, nature nature's nature, man, nature's always there?
Speaker 1:if I, how can I answer this? I don't know mental health.
Speaker 2:Right trails help, but it also almost goes hand in hand with, uh, just walking. Yeah, um, because I never stopped and smell the roses, you know, as I like to say, and had a episode, just you know, explaining that and um, on my podcast. I I'd never really did that, but just me being able to, uh, not overly exert myself and just be out there and walk is is my answer instead of nature, you know, um, because I never really stopped and smelled the roses, take pictures listen to the quietness, man, like that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's the one thing it's funny. This season I've really upped it like big time, like I am very determined let's put it that way but like I have also, like when I take time to like I never used to just take time to do a hike as well, like as a double for the day or a triple, and I do a lot more hikes now, man with dogs and I just don't bring my earphones and I just listen and it's very relaxing to just take a walk, you know, in nature and just be there and be present and be grounded.
Speaker 1:I never used to appreciate that and now I don't know if it's me getting old and my wisdom, but damn, do I appreciate it. It really, and I would challenge any person listening to this. Like, if you don't do that, like find it, even if it's 20 minutes out of your day, just hang out outside and just listen to nothing, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just moving, being out, there, is helpful. Nature not so much. It was always a workout, workout, workout, you know, it was just. You know, I'm outside, I'm working out. Now I'm outside, I'm just moving. You know, um, it was just. You know, I'm outside, I'm working out. Now I'm outside, I'm just moving. You know, am I stopping? Smell the roses? Uh, there's not much to see around here, man. It's low desert, you know, and it's very windy and cold here. It's just. It's not that fun now.
Speaker 2:Pacific northwest winter is not great man no, no, especially eastern washington it's a lot different. Everybody thinks it's evergreen state, not over here, it's scablands, and if you guys know what scablands is, it's missoula flood. Just wash this whole thing out and basically there's no trees in sight until you get to spokane.
Speaker 1:So oh god, do you ever traveled all you ever like you, ever go out to the mountains at all during the winter, or do any skiing, or I, I do, I do, I was gonna do, uh, uh, mount hood ascent.
Speaker 2:uh, in winter ascent I still up in the air, um, this month or next month, we, I don't, I don't know but I will be doing it in May, um, so, again, I love Mount hood, mount hood's good, but no, I travel a lot. Right now I've been, uh, just doing stuff around my house. Uh, you know, just not the trail system here and there and a loop trying to stay closer to home, just because I don't want to get stranded.
Speaker 2:you know, um, because the health yeah, now it's smart, yeah, but that that's, that's my comfort zone right now. But I I do and have been going out, um, to the nearest mountain here and there. I want to do something else because it gets boring. After so so long I've been doing it for years it's just like, okay, let me go to hood for a weekend can't really go to hood because my kids and the wife, you know- responsibilities, man that's for sure yeah, how far are you from that hood uh two, two and a half to three hours, depending on traffic okay, that's not bad.
Speaker 2:That's not too bad at all yeah, yeah to get, yeah, to get the mountains any, any drive around here is two and a half mile. Uh, two and a half hours. Okay, that's similar to colorado springs.
Speaker 1:Man, we're like two hours, just about two hours, from probably I'd say probably two hours to the closest ski resort, two hours to all the other 14ers other than pikes, peak, and maybe it's a little bit less like mount evans, mount beardstaff, but like uh, it's kind of it I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, I did. I did plan on uh doing uh guadalupe peak and wheeler peak uh in april. Yeah, in april.
Speaker 1:But man the flying right now I don't know if I want to fly, dude, I know it's crazy, it's crazy I have my my mother-in-law's here staying with us and, uh, it's funny, my wife and I like never watch the news. I like live in a bubble dude. I'm I'm terrible with that, but my mother-in-law's here and they're from like upstate new york, so the the news is on a lot and, uh, I feel like I've learned more about the news and like plane crashes and shit this week than I have in the entire three years of my life. Yeah, it's crazy it is so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, if that doesn't happen, I think, uh, spring break, I'll just go do the highest point nevada, that's cool and uh, in the summer, end up going to your neck of the woods and doing uh king's peak. And then a couple peaks were in colorado nice man.
Speaker 1:I love the colorados on the on the in the plans. Well, listen man if I'm here. If I'm around, when you're uh in town, I'll take you up. It'd be an honor to go up with you. It'd be nice and fun. Yeah, get up on. Have you been on Pike's peak yet before?
Speaker 2:No no that's good.
Speaker 1:Well, that one's an easy one. We could take the train up or we could do it the hard way.
Speaker 2:Not a hard way, dude. Go big or go home dude, the nature man, I don't know man. I always go to these destinations and just get a workout in, and if I stop, I see it, if I don't, I don't see it.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting, it's a crazy thing, it's funny. I have a very good friend of mine, one of my best friends, shout out to Brad, he's a, he's more of an FKT racer and he genuinely does it because he just loves the mountains so much. And I was thinking about this just being introspective recently and I was like man, like what got me into the sport? Why do I love it so much? And, like my, I was thinking about my like relationship with the sport has changed so much because it's gone such a like 360 from loving being in the mountains to, or 180, I should say, to performance and like racing and like loving that scene too. And it's like man, I gotta get back to like having balance because, like, if you do, if you don't have balance, you know it, you should just enjoy like having fun and in the mountains, as opposed to, it can't always be a, you know how fast can I get to the top of this peak and down, oh yeah the cool thing though, man just being an outdoors, outdoorsy person, outdoorsman, whatever you know.
Speaker 2:Change it up and do some backpacking.
Speaker 1:You've done that yet no, no, it's something I've been wanting to do. In fact, we were just talking about it because I was saying my wife's family lives in upstate new york and we're gonna be in like vermont, new hampshire, uh, new york, for probably most of june this year and, um, yeah, I'm like probably gonna do some of the at.
Speaker 1:I don't know about backpacking, but like at least like hobby jogging slash, like running sections yeah, do a bunch of it in new york and vermont and maybe some of the long trail and stuff like that, and it'd be cool to see. And you know, I don't know if I'm the kind of person to ever do like like a long backpacking trip, like I don't know how the I don't know if I'm the kind of person to ever do like like a long backpacking trip, like I don't know how the I don't know if I have the patience for something like that. Yeah, I'm very impatient person. I I, if we're, if I'm moving too slow, I'm like what am I doing here? Uh, but that said, the older I get, the more I'm starting. It's especially because, like, there's technicality in the Northeast, so that's very engaging, whereas, like some of the longer trails out West, I don't know if it would like capture my it's different, different mentality, different feel, different love of the game.
Speaker 2:You know, not only you have to worry about the time, worry about your pack, you worry, you know, uh, your water, your food situation, and then you know if you can make camp before dark, or it's not dark yet, but I still can move. Let's go another 12 hour, you know, another few hours until it gets dark. You know, you know, let's push yourself a little more, and then you, you spend more time in the mountains. You see the mountains and, uh, how the mountains, they, they look the same, but they're not. Every every little crevice, every rock is different. You know, one, one mountain range has granite, the other doesn't. It's just, you know it, dude, it's, it's crazy, it's it. That's the only time I'll like just know the difference of nature.
Speaker 1:And a workout when I backpack well, I think there's something to be said too, especially if you're backpacking by yourself or if you're with a very small group of people. I think there's something to be said about that much time just being in your own head, like being alone with yourself, right.
Speaker 1:It's like oh yeah that's that that makes you change as a person. You know, and I think there's those are growth opportunities too. So it's like, yeah, you get some fitness from it. Yeah it, um, you know, nature is obviously amazing, but I think, like the growth potential is a person that you could probably gain from just like a long time just being in your own head and being by yourself. Um, it's probably massive from something like that.
Speaker 1:You know, dude, I'm such a slow walker like I'm this is kind of funny actually like my wife and I like if we go for a hike, she drops me, like I am I'm a notorious slow walk walker, slash hiker yeah, I don't know why and like I, just it's hard for me.
Speaker 1:Like I, um, I do a lot of doubles or triples in a week where, like the second like workout of the or not what shouldn't say workout second stimulus of the day will just be like a long hike, um, you know, yeah, you know, a couple hours or something like that, just time on the feet and just, you know, just enjoying being outside for your mental health and um, dude, my like, I hate it, like I'll get done and my ankles are hurt and I'm like, why do I not feel this when I run really hard or like running mountains, like it's like hiking for me is like I don't know and I'm very slow, so that's another thing that's kind of funny. It's like I'm used to running. I had a pretty good clip, you know, humbly speaking, yeah, like, yeah, it's, it's, I'm a really bad hiker. You should say so. Have you ever done anything like that? Have you ever done like pct or long trail or jmt or anything like that?
Speaker 2:I've done parts of the jmt, I've done the the north to south lake and bishop california, um, that, that that was uh 40 or 60, something like that 46, 46 to 60 miles. And you, you get the portion of uh jmt and you get the john muir uh pass. You, you, you get the portion of uh JMT and you get the John Muir uh pass, you get all that you can uh it's, it's Darwin, yeah, you can see the views there. But uh, that I've done, I've done that and also do a lot of uh destinations as my hub and then do a lot of uh destinations as my hub and then all and I'll have, you know, my camp and then I'll just go one trail next trail, one trail next trail. So I'll do like two or three trails a day and just head up to camp, not sleep until I'm like you know I crash. But uh, that's, that's how I normally get around and that's how I am able to do all these mountains and cascades and Sierras and whatnot.
Speaker 1:Cascades are sweet range. Man, I've got to tell you put September 13th. I think it's September 13th. It's that second weekend of September 2nd or 3rd. I've got to find out. Don't put it in your calendar until I give you the date. But I'm coming out to see you. I'm going to do Cirque Series Crystal, crystal Mountain, which can't be that far from you. It's got to be what three?
Speaker 2:hours.
Speaker 1:Dude, you should think about doing that race. You should come out, you should come out for a little circuit. Who puts it on? Who puts it on? It's a circ series race. So the circ series is it's a sub ultra series of races, um, and they put on some of the more most, uh, I'd say, competitive, deepest, uh, sub ultra. You know when I say sub ultra, like mountain classic distance, so like 10k, 11k, 14k, um, and they're usually like you know that distance with you know somewhere between two to three to sometimes four thousand feet of vertical. So, for instance, like the crystal mountain one, I think, is like just south of three thousand feet of vert and like seven miles, so it's basically straight up to the ridge line. You'll be on the ridge line for a little bit and you drop down and you know you get speedy descents on some single track and some dirt road and it's fast, it's very fast, but it's so much fun dude.
Speaker 1:So yeah, they're putting it on for the first time this year, so that's on my list to go out and do. So put that one on, start thinking about coming out to do Cirque. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, man, it's hard to get away from what I have planned or not planned. And you talk about walking. It took me two to three years to do, or train for, multiple day events 24 hours, 32, 48 hours and, um, basically, my walk is almost like my jog. So it's, it's impressive, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's true, it's, it's an art form. It is difficult, man, and once you have it, it's, it's really tough to go to speed, man, and I've been trying to go back to speed. I tried, I, I'm trying, man, I'm trying, but I'm just, I'm, I'm hooked and I've been in it for quite some time. It took me a long time to get, you know, getting the motion, getting the groove of multiple day events. I love them. I'm just taking a step back. I'm going to do more mountains this year. I like it.
Speaker 2:I signed up for across across the years. Last year Okay, yeah, great race. I signed up for the 48 hour one, but I had to cancel. I, they were man and shout out to our Viper man, they didn't, you know, they didn't cut my loss. They said that I have until 2026 to use the credit for that race and I think that's the only race I'm going to do this year, the 48-hour one. When does it cross the years? Just because of it's the the race? Uh, man, it goes from. No, no, when, six hours when? Oh, uh, january it goes across.
Speaker 2:Uh, I guess new year's okay, okay, the 28th, uh past new year's all, all the way up to six days so so I thought and that's, that's my goal.
Speaker 1:Okay, dude, that's amazing that's my goal I love to hear yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But man, after you know, tearing my plantar fascia last year, dude, it was just like hitting at all angles, man you know, and getting that plantar fascia, I'd rather have back surgery than, uh, tearing my plantar how did you and that?
Speaker 2:Overuse, overuse and not stretching, not stretching appropriately, or the amount of times I was beating to my body. Basically it was the calves man. You got to stretch the calves, beat them up to the point that it just lowers the tension on your wheels, man, and I tore it. I tore it, dude. I went to a foot doctor, did my best scar tissue so bad it's almost like a pressure point, dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, that's crazy. You might be the only person I've ever met that's from their plantar fascia. What like do you? How did you like? What does that pain feel like? Like what's the area of your foot that that hurts? Is it like?
Speaker 2:So I'll I'll show. Are you going to put this on YouTube?
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean if you want me to, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, no, no. No, I see you taking clips, but all right.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure this is the one I clip for, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get it, but it was right here, man Right there, right, it's right there, like underneath the arch.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, dude, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right, past the heel to the arch, man. Yeah, wow, yeah, man, it's been eventful. Man, yeah, so don't ever need surgery, because I swear, ever since I had back surgery, it went downhill from there, man. I went from back surgery to torn meniscus, to everything else you can think of, dude, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, only knock on wood. So far it's just been an ankle that it snapped, but other than that it's been relatively smooth sailing, oh yeah there's nothing like a uh, what a second grade.
Speaker 1:Uh, tear or sprain in the ankle I've had that a couple times man, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, I was just telling my, I hate I was just talking about the uh, the ankle the other day, like when I snapped it, like listening you, I heard it snap, like it was allowed to snap you. Oh my god, yeah, dude, that was uh, that's not something I ever want to do again. That was probably your worst fear, man. Uh, yeah, you know what I don't know?
Speaker 1:it's a fear I've been running a lot more downhills lately and just trying to get more comfortable with like, like high intensity going down and especially with rocks and technical stuff, and I think it's just you know repetitions and you start to get more used to it. I, I don't know. Yeah, it does, but like you, just can't fear it, you know, just have hope for the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, when you hear the pop, there's no sound like it. Man, you're like oh, I heard the pop. Oh my gosh, you know, that's what I'm saying. Like the fear, yeah, and it's like oh god, I, I don't want to. Yeah, I can't mess with my wheels, man, you know, I can't mess with my wheels the other thing that scares me is the achilles, the achilles tendon.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's something I never want to do, because the people that like me, is the achilles tendon. That's something I never want to, because the people that like have problems with achilles, especially with like hagman's deformities and stuff like that that carries you for a while unless you go get it cut out, and it's like that's worse if you snap the achilles like. I've only known one athlete in trail running. I'm cringing man, yeah, but snapping the achilles is not good, yeah the surgery for that man.
Speaker 2:So yeah, man, so yeah, but for you, man, what were you Cross?
Speaker 1:the years. Go for it. No, I was just going to ask you about cross the years. I think that's a solid goal, man. That's exciting. It's something to train for and you got another year to go for it and, yeah, I think that's a beautiful goal. I'm excited for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's. There's nothing like fixed, uh, fixed course. And you know you bring your stuff and you just have a little, you know your little area and get what you need, get what you get. Don't throw a fit and, yeah, Fixed course they can be boring, but but I mean that's how you can push the body and not worry about anything it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what, dude, one of these days we are going to recruit you to sub ultra. We're going to get you out. We're going to I don't know what it's going to be, but it's going to be a solid sub ultra race. Maybe we'll get you a broken arrow or something. We'll get you there. So, yeah, it'll be, it'll be good.
Speaker 2:I'll eventually get your ear enough to, uh, bring you to the dark side yeah, my, my, my big goal, though, man, um, so I remember talking to ben light and mike mcknight right, not throwing any names out there, but, um, they were thinking about this 300 mile race in utah and they're finally putting it on. That's what I want to do, man. I thought about doing the crazy, thought about doing that, uh, the crazy mountain, the 300 that's in montana, that only like, I think it's up to 15 people or 20 people, um, but montana is more brutal than utah, and I'll take Utah over Montana, just because the Grizzlies, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Cause you have to take, you have to take a class, man, you have to take a class and you carry the, the bear spray and whatnot you know, when you're doing that Montana race. But yeah, think about hitting Mike McKnight up and say hey, dude, can, can I get in? You know 300 miles, man, just just do it, just try it.
Speaker 1:I think you should absolutely go for it.
Speaker 2:That's the number one goal right now.
Speaker 1:I just happened to come across Mike McKnight's Instagram that guy is jacked. Now, dude, he's, he's in an insane shape Like dude yeah, holy shit, he's in crazy shape. Yeah, insane shape. Like dude yeah, holy shit, he's in crazy shape, yeah, yeah. And he's like like I don't know. I think he like put something up about like I don't know. People call him like a bodybuilder, now like he's, he's, he's, he's jacked, like seriously jacked. The guy is in insane shape.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, good for him yeah, yeah, yeah, man, yeah, and he's doing other competitions and stuff like that and killing it there. It's like what we can't he's doing how can you do? What can't you do?
Speaker 1:How are you? It's like yeah, crossfit adjacent, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, crossfit, yup, yup, but yeah, no, he's killing it, him and his, uh, his, milk products.
Speaker 1:Does anybody have a products? Is a milk product? Oh man, raw, it's funny, raw raw milk. The 200 mile people is like a completely different scene than like it's like it's like it's an own world, whereas like the sub ultra is its own world, you know. Then there's the ultra scene which is like your, your 100 mile distance, 50k, you know that like premiere scene, which is interesting. So it's cool to see like how there's all different like worlds within the sport and there's like some little crossover with you know, yeah, man, and, and you know I've had big names on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm getting you know big names that aren't so vocal or out there, like Ben, like Mike McKnight, you know, and and some of your guys that are part of your program, um, not on your podcast, but ultimate direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, john Kelly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Kelly. Um, but, dude, I've been getting these people in and, uh, just tweaking their mind trying to find out, like, how they do what they do, which I love. That's the premise of the podcast. You know just why do you do what you do, how do you do it, and you know what, what. What is, what does it take to complete it? Man Well, I had Deshauna Joe on. Have you ever heard of her?
Speaker 2:I think from your podcast, I believe, yeah yeah, well, dude, complete ba dude, total, badass, right, she, if you follow her man, you can still. You know, she just likes to move. And when I was interviewing her she she's done crazy, three times crazy mountain. Uh, she wants to finish it. She hasn't finished it. She's done cocodona, she's done all those 200 races right. And I asked her leading up to the race how many miles does she get a week? Crazy dude, almost like john kelly. John kelly blew my mind when he said he gets 60 in his routine, you know yeah 20 to 30 miles.
Speaker 2:20 to 30 miles and she completed coca-dona bro, I believe it, I but dude.
Speaker 1:You know what it is especially I, I can speak a little bit of john kelly's training just because I know him.
Speaker 1:But like, yeah, like everything john touches is quality, like there's no bullshit miles in there, like there's nothing. Oh yeah, and he does a lot more speed work than people think. He does. A lot like he. That dude's really fit. And I think like he gets the people get the wrong idea. Uh, because he does like super long stuff. So people automatically synonymize like long stuff with walking. No, john kelly is fit as fuck dude.
Speaker 2:Like he. I've run with him a couple of times, John.
Speaker 1:Kelly is a really good athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a freak of nature man. There's a reason why he can complete Barkley.
Speaker 1:Like John Kelly stopped the food chain, like if he wanted to go, if he wanted to go race, um, I think, yeah, I forget what his marathon time is. He's got a pretty fast marathon time like he's a legit athlete, um, like he's not not playing around and he puts me to shame rightfully so. He puts a lot of people to shame, dude. Uh right, like rightfully so he's.
Speaker 1:He's like you know, that's why I, I just think like barclays, yes, barclays, a different beast, because it's you know, it's really hard, right but like I'm just talking like from a pure fitness perspective, like an actual, like like a 10k, 5k marathon, like he he's actually like a solid competitor, like he's very good athlete no, yeah, but for him to say 60, I get.
Speaker 2:I've been getting a couple people you know, like lance harp he's a local runner shout out to lance. You know, he said he walked all of cocodona.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, all right, the 250 mile walk, dude, that's a long way to go, yeah yeah, but then I get her on man and she's just 20 to 30 miles a week.
Speaker 2:Man, just blew my mind. I'm like, wow and so. And then I'm getting you know another gal on that I work with who doesn't doesn't have to train at all, but she'll do a 50 miler like that dude and finish it. I'm like, oh, I've trained up to certain times and I'll get a DNF. You know, I'm just saying getting all sorts of data, you know, beta, as climbers like to say. You know, and just work the system and see how the mind works. I mean, it works in mysterious ways and seeing the body can do. Yeah, man, it's been fun lately. It's been fun and a lot of people have been noticing it, you know, on the podcast, and noticing that I have been having a lot of fun. Considering the circumstances, it's a good outlet, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 19 episodes out last year People were like you're still on the podcast. Yeah, I'm still on the podcast.
Speaker 1:But I just had to deal with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're still on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm still on the podcast, but I just have to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah so, but now it's like dude nick, you're killing him, like am I? I'm just having fun, man, just have fun.
Speaker 2:The man is back. Hell, yeah, yeah, man, yeah, you know, I like I. I'm always there to help people, man. And uh, if you had a a niche for podcasting and you needed help, I'm always there to help people, man. And if you had a niche for podcasting and you needed help, I'm always there. It's not a cutthroat world for me. I'm always willing to pass it along if you're going to have fun. So look at you now, man, 60 something dude, you're pushing them out 60.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I'm going to gonna be at so 60 something interviews, but I'll be a. I think this episode is like close to 100, like it'll be like at 100 by year one. That was the goal. I put out a ton, of ton of volume dude volume, volume, volume.
Speaker 1:See what sticks, see what works. Um, yeah, man, it's, it's. Uh, yeah, it's it's. Everybody I've spoken to has been so kind, like the podcast and like whether it be you, jon, jonathan Levitt is another guy down the trail. Finn Melanson from Singletrack has been a good. You know I bounce ideas off of him. Like there's Singletrack, yeah yeah, there's plenty of people that have been just like so monumental and like helping grow this damn thing, and I mean it's not, I'm not going to lie, it's not, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I think any person that's a very competitive person like myself, and any person that, like you know, has high aspirations, like, um, you know, for certain things, like I wish it was bigger.
Speaker 1:Obviously we all wish we, you know, bigger, this better, that you know but, it's like it has been an amazing journey, like I think the more I gotten out of it is more so, just like having made so many friends.
Speaker 1:I think that's the crazy thing you know it's been so cool to like cover the sport and, like you know, tell, help tell the stories of, I think that you know. So there's, there's a I don't know if you're familiar with, like free trail, right, and this is no, no knock on free trial. I think free trail is amazing. I just think the free trail follows a very specific type of athlete and there are so many athletes out there that don't get their shine, especially in the sub ultra space, like no one's covering the space. So for me it's like you know, this is the most competitive racing. You know, figure. Let's take Golden Trail, right, and then the sky running series and then the Cirque series. You then your one-off races that are, you know, amazing as well.
Speaker 1:There's so many of some of the world's most competitive mountain races, if you will, and it's like some of the best athletes in the world are racing these and no one's following it or no one's covering yeah talking about it and helping tell stories, and there's crazy right right, well, and you get a lot of these people that, like you're Remy Bonet's of the world, right, I'm sure everybody's heard of Remy, but, like then, you know, nobody could tell me who got fifth at Pike's peak in 2023 or 2024, you know nobody can tell me, but it's like that's an amazing, that athlete is an incredible athlete and like deserves that story told and they're top of the food chain.
Speaker 1:So it's like that's. That's kind of where I see it, as you know. And then the other thing, too, is people coming up in the sport. Um, you know, I love being able to tell the stories of those that are starting to cause. As an athlete, it's easy for me to sell like all right, this person's going to be really good or this person is really good, I have a lot of right, but it's like uh being able to tell that story, um, and and kind of get that energy off of them, you know, because they're coming up.
Speaker 1:There's nothing, you know nothing more magical than that. To be able to uh see that and watch that. Uh, you know, become a thing.
Speaker 1:So right, it's been crazy, dude yeah, and then put them on yeah, and it's weird too because put them on and understand what they do yeah, I will understand what they do, but I think it's even more so their mindset. Um, it's wild dude like michelino sinceri is a great example, like michelino's a buddy of mine and he's a wild boy, wild boy, interesting cat, um, but, and he's like has fun with it and he's enjoys it and like loves the sport. But also he he's a little more relaxed right, he's hardcore, like he's an amazing athlete but's a little more relaxed. Right, he's hardcore, like he's an amazing athlete, but like a little more relaxed about, like different personality, right, I think that's what I'm getting at, right.
Speaker 1:But then you meet like john is is, and john is is a three-time pikes peak marathon champion and the dude is like xyz, like dialed, like completely up, he's an aerospace engineer, phd. So so completely opposite personalities. It's interesting because they both competed the highest and operated at the highest of highest of levels and be able to see the way they think and both have massive success in the sport and you can take little things from different people and apply that in what you do and it's helped my game a lot. I've learned so much as an athlete and it's helped me get a lot better.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's cool, it's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:What a world.
Speaker 2:It's a, it's a win-win. So it's a win-win man and putting the you know, those people up, like you were saying. You know, that's what I've been doing, the Western lifestyle and that's how I've created, you know, um, the success that I have in that, you know. First I questioned myself because, you know, I don't look the part man, I just go there. I love the rodeo man, I love the, the events, I do it, I'm good at it, I know who are up and coming and you know, I approached them. And then the, the runners, dude, if they come, they come, if not, oh well. But lately I've been putting people up there that question themselves, you know, and then they have like a moment of clarity and I'm like, yeah, I'm good at what I do, and then they tell the story and they tell me afterwards thank you, I needed that, I needed that little push, you know. And so, yeah, that's what I've been doing, man, and I've been having fun.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the runners, not so much. You know, get Mike McKnight on, or you know the big names John Kelly on, or you believe it or not, your big name. Just let you know that, yeah, whatever man, whatever dude, but yeah, it's just yeah, it's, it's, it's. It's pretty uplifting, man, to know that we have this platform that can push people to new heights, whether you know there are athletes, studs themselves or people that are starting and questioning whether or not they have it, the fortitude to do what everyone does about. You know what we our population on the podcast.
Speaker 1:You know, so I agree man, it's, it's, uh, it's pretty cool, man, yeah it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a privilege I think that's the one way I'll put it is like especially a year in and with no, uh no, plans on slowing down anytime soon. Like it's definitely, yeah, it's. It's a privilege to be able to help tell people's stories and you know and grow the sport and push it push it in the direction.
Speaker 1:You know, at least have some power and push it in the direction. I think it should go, you know, I think that's that's another thing is being able to you. You know cause? Just cause there's so few people covering the damn sport that I, like I don't know you get a little power to be able to be like all right. Well, we should cover this. Maybe it's the right thing. Maybe it's not, I don't know, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a great feeling. It's a great feeling just to be, um, you know, do what you love and do you know cover something that you care about.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, it's crazy Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so well, dude, do you think we got?
Speaker 2:everything. When are you going to get Bo on?
Speaker 1:When am I? Oh, bo Shelby, I was going to bring him up actually, cause I was going to tell you like If he runs a sub ultra race, he's on no no, no, have them on.
Speaker 2:Have them on, dude, the kid is good.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, he's. He's. No, there's no doubt. But I got to stick to the scope. I'm a, you know. I got to cover the sport. We got to we got to.
Speaker 2:I haven't done a sub ultra because I'm the podfather. You're the pod, you're the influence for this podcast actually, is that?
Speaker 1:no, and I gotta give bo shelby his flowers. I mean, he had a great leadville last year. I like I'm very aware of who he is. Um, you know he's had a great, great race to run rabbit. Obviously a great race at leadville.
Speaker 1:I'm glad uh I can't remember, did he win silver rush? He did very well at silver rush a couple years back and then obviously had a great race at leadville. So so, no, listen, very well aware, like I said, the one stringent policy is like you got to do a sub-Ultra race at some point. So if he puts himself up in a sub-Ultra race done, I'll give him the interview of his life.
Speaker 2:Dude, just give him an interview. Man, because the kid. I call him a kid because he's younger than me. Man, but dude, he is talented. And call him a kid because he's younger than me. Man, but dude, he is talented. And I will never forget the first time I met with him, ran with him, even though he we were doing last man standing, I was doing a ruck, he was doing his thing and, dude, no one moved like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah he's good dude no, no one moved like him and he doesn't even put in the effort. But man, is he a dark horse? No matter what, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Not for long, dude, not for long for dark horse he's going to be. Uh, if he keeps doing right like he, like the way he ran Ludville, if he has another couple more successful races like that, like his name will be out there. He's a kid's good, very, very good. Yeah, yeah, good talent man.
Speaker 2:Good eye for good eye for the talent yeah, dude, I'm good, I, I coach man, I coach track and cross country, you know. So I, I know a few things. I might be old, but not that old, and I, I got my niche, but uh, no, he went to worlds too, did he? I don't think back backyard, uh, world, oh backyard worlds yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know whether it works, even the worlds man I don't know why it works for backyard, for how that works, but that's amazing dude kids are legit, there you go yeah, dude, I'm telling you, telling you, yeah, so so what's next man?
Speaker 2:what's?
Speaker 1:next for you? Oh dude, um big block of fitness right now working on, you know, running a very fast 10k. It's kind of where I'm at somewhere in that realm, like midway through the block and destroying myself like three workouts a week.
Speaker 1:So trying to get that done. Once that's over with, um, you know, transition back to the trails. Uh, probably around late march, early april, and, uh, start preparing for the trail season. Dude, I'm gonna be all over the place. Be, yeah, racing in, we'll be doing. Um, I'll be racing in the us mount, I think it's, is it? No, it's up down, not running champs of sunopi, so I'll be there for that, trying to qualify for worlds. Um, yeah, that'll be fun. Um, and then cirque series canon, you'll get it. Uh, no, no it'll be exciting to be there.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, dude, the competition is just so it's, it's insane. Like we have. These are the best athletes in the world. Uh, and like just so. The depth is so deep, so it'll be fun just to compete and see what that level's like, because that's another level up from whatever level I've ever even been on. So it'll be fun to see, like, what that looks like. I think it'll be all right, um. Cirque series cannon Look forward to doing well there. Cirque series Killington I'll be at, which I'm very excited for Um be going to Alaska this year for the first time, which I'm excited. I'll be doing. Cirque series aliaska. What else am I doing? A couple more I'll be at cirque series, alta, and then dang dude you're busy.
Speaker 1:A base, yeah well. So I just signed another deal with sportiva and there's a big push because they sponsored the cirque series. So there's a big push. We'll have all of our athletes out there to compete and it'll be fun yeah, it'll be like a big homecoming, big, you know family reunion, with all these sportive athletes out there throwing down. So it'll be cool for that. Yeah, um what else am I doing.
Speaker 1:I'll be at a basin whether I'll race or whether I'll just be there and person to cover, that's to be determined. And then, um, the rut, which I'm super excited for, I'll probably be. I'm doing the VK, I might do the 28K as well, undecided on that. And then Cirque series, cannon, and then I did sign up for a 50K. I am going to run a very unknown race it's called the Sangre de Cristo 50K in this beautiful area, the Sangre de Cristo mountains of Colorado. I signed up for it just because I've I I had I've had good success over the years.
Speaker 1:Uh, it was the first race I ever ran. Uh, in colorado, which was the second christian 50k, and I like let it for almost the like to the last, like to like mile 25, and rolled my ankle and walked it in, came like 12th place. So I have to come back and write that wrong. I've got the course record at the 27k and and the 14k. So I'd like to get out of the 50k just for a little, something fun to do at the end of the year or at the end of the race. So, yeah, man, that's the sweat. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:I don't know listen to you, man. Here I am one race because of all the stuff, but then I'm gonna do a lot of mountains and trails. So two things, man. I remember when you first started you were guessing, second guessing yourself on whether or not you should start this podcast. You're killing the game right. Second dude, second second bro. I know you're humble, that's why I love you, dude, but let's sportiva. You know, ultimate, uh, direction, they, they, they don't just sign duds, okay. And for you to say, oh, I'm not out there right now and me telling you, dude, you, you'll get it, and you quit not questioning, but you just saying, no, dude, you need to stop doing that. Man. Oh, thanks, there's a reason why they signed you.
Speaker 2:There's a reason why they signed you. There's a reason why they signed you, bro, and you got to take it. You got to take it as is. I love the humbleness, man, but, dude, you are an elite athlete.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks man.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I appreciate the kind words so much and you got to own it. No, I do, I do. I appreciate the kind words so much and you got to own it. No, I do, I do. The thing is is like our sport, and I think that I have to give flowers where it's due for certain things. Our sport is just so competitive, dude, and it's so difficult, and I think for me it's the motivation to go race something like soon to pee.
Speaker 1:So, for instance, like, I have goals. Like my goal is to, like, christ's sake, finally get on the podium of cirque series race this year. That would be great, that's, that's. That is obviously the, the goal of one of them of the many that I'll be doing, uh, but the goal is also to chase the pro podium. Like there's a. The way it works is they have just like any like, whether it's the golden trail series, the cirque series or the goal or the sky running series, there's a, a pro ranking, if you will.
Speaker 1:And last year I was able. I was happy, I'm stoked, I got into the top 10. I was like, oh, this is great. Yeah, um, meaningless for other people, stoked.
Speaker 1:For me it was like all right, this is, this is validation.
Speaker 1:You know, considering some of the best mountain runners in the world, you know, your christian allens, your philomons, your joe grays end up in there.
Speaker 1:Uh, not saying that I'm anywhere near that level, because I'm certainly not, but it was definitely some, some little bit of validation and like like, ah, all right, if I work, continue to work really hard at this, eventually it'd be at that level soon to p. For something like soon to p for me is going to be one I can say this right now just because I cover the sport and just because I know the sport so well. So something like soon a peasy, they're going to be won by a complete unknown, someone that's going to come from the track and field background to completely obliterate that race. Or it's going to be your, somebody like your christian allen, which, if you have that's someone to have on the podcast the kid is elite of the elite. There's just there's like there's levels to the, to the sub-altar scene in a way that I don't think people understand, like it is just such a competitive field and like, that's why a lot of names.
Speaker 1:You don't. People don't learn a lot of names. Because someone like joe gray, who's 40 can be 41, has had such longevity because he's just been top of the sport for so long, which, and if he wins all the races, it doesn't. And same like christian allen, same with your max kings, um you know, it doesn't create as much space for big names to get known. That's why there's a little bit less. But dude, it's, it's, the depth is so deep man.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean I'm realistic, I'm not you know, I don't want to say like, oh, I'm going to win win this or win that or call that.
Speaker 2:No, you don't have to, but you can say it. Well, you know, I'm going to say it for you, dude. Oh, thanks, man, because here you are, the podcast game is competitive, no matter how you look at it. No, daily work, our jobs, it's competitive. No matter how you look at it, it's cutthroat. You know where I work and you know, and in the group or the social work life, you know it's competitive there. It's cutthroat. Anywhere you look at it, man, it's competitive. And you got it, dude. You got it in the podcast world, you got it in life, man, shout out to your wife, dude, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm married now. You got married.
Speaker 2:I mean, come on, dude, you know you're killing it, dude, and I'm proud of you. Man, I just want nothing but the best. You doubting yourself or questioning, dude, stop doing it. Man, there's a reason why La Sportiva signed you, ultimate Direction and others. You got it, bro. I appreciate the compliments, man.
Speaker 1:It'll be fun. We'll see what happens, man. Thank you, yeah, I mean it'll be fun we'll see what happens this year.
Speaker 1:It's definitely going to be fun uh you know, just to go to new places and and and compete against great athletes, and you know a competition's fun dude like I, there's nothing more fun than, uh, being able to completely empty yourself and then with a bunch of other like-minded individuals, and you know see where that tops out. And I, I enjoy the process. I used to hate the process, but the process is so much fun. You know like being able to like improve one percent more every few days or every week, or compounding workouts and seeing like how much fitter you can get in certain amount of time, and it's like, wow, this is crazy, like I worked years for this and it's well, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:So yeah man, it's a great sport. It's the best sport in the world, that's for sure, yeah, when.
Speaker 1:When are I know you have fur babies yeah any babies, any additions no man, you know the oh that actually hasn't come up in it for we, I think we're, we're, I at the you're the first person ever asked me this other than like uh other than family. No, you got me um now dude no plans. No plans as of right now. Um, you know I'm a deeply selfish person. It's terrible. I take my, I take I'm very busy too, and's something I think I you will probably use as an excuse or a crutch, Um.
Speaker 1:but I'm also deeply selfish in the way that, like I really covet and take so serious the amount of effort I put into my training, um, and performance and being in the mountains and stuff like that. That, like, dude, I would be a terrible father just because, like, I'm just so focused on wanting to you know get better get be a better podcaster or be a better runner um, I got you or or be good at work I don't know it's.
Speaker 1:I don't know it's time time. Yeah, the time is ticking too, because I am 34, so I don't know. The wife will probably listen to this too. We'll see. We'll see the conversation that comes out of that.
Speaker 2:Last question, man. Last question when are you going to be able to say you made it? What's it going to take? What's it going to take for you to say you made it? Man, you're top of your game, you've maxed out.
Speaker 1:What's it going to take? Is this for podcasting or is this for running? What is this for all the above, all the above, dude, never let's go podcasting.
Speaker 2:Let's go podcasting first it's never uh.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the deal. All right. So if you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of podcasting, so, and if you do listen to my podcast, you know me and you know how I feel about like, uh, what I do for a living right, I hate corporate world, the corporate world. I work in the corporate world. I work for a huge Fortune 500. I work in corporate finance. I think it's soul-sucking and I hate it.
Speaker 1:And for me, the greatest gift and the greatest piece of joy that I could ever have is being able to. For me, at least piece of joy that I could ever have is being able to uh. For me, at least, the like when I'll have kind of made it is if I can take a step back from that and and have the podcast full time. That would be like the greatest gift I could ever get myself. Will that happen? I don't know. That's why I work my ass off to be able to see if we can make that happen.
Speaker 1:I don't know, but that wouldn't have been making it, because once you get there, like, uh, like, you have to worry about your income. Then, year over year, to like, you know, for these brands that you know have shitty deals to be able to. Yeah, that's a that's for another conversation. But, um, yeah, I am very thankful for the support of ultimate direction I. That's not what I meant by like. I will say it is like it is very difficult. From podcasters I know that are making it, they're either full-time living or extract a significant amount of money. It is a very difficult way to make a living, so it's trading one thing for another.
Speaker 2:But that said it does matter.
Speaker 1:It means a lot to be able to do that, and I think it's even more so for me. Um, just the excitement to be able to do something I truly love, like I and I if you know me like if anybody that knows me is listening to this, like they know how much I love this sport and how much I want to grow this thing and like see where I can take this sport.
Speaker 1:So to me, the short, the short answer is I'll never be satisfied, I'll never be where I want it to be, just because I'll constantly be obsessing and then it's the same thing for running. Yeah, I've thought about this for a long time and I joke around because, like my poor wife, every, every summer, it's her. Our summer schedule is dictated by where. Where am I going to race and what are you doing?
Speaker 1:right and it's like you know, I'm 34 now and I've put rose through this now for I don't know, five years. Uh, and now, especially, like, as my life has grown around the sport, and now that I'm a quote-unquote athlete, if you will, um, you know, I have a certain expectations and contracts that I have to abide by and follow. If I want to, you know, pursue that, so continue. Yeah, I, I don't know. I think for me what's going to happen is, um, like I never thought in a million years like I'd be able to become a quote unquote, like sponsored runner, if you will, right Now that I've done that. It's like the, the lore of that is great, it's amazing to run for a brand. It's the support, is everything I can ask for more, you know, it's, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:Um, eventually, like you got to remember to the way I think about it, like there are so many athletes in the sport that I love and respect that should have spots on these teams. The second, that I feel like I'm just taking up a spot that deserves to be go to somebody else. I'll, you know, gladly give that spot to someone that deserves it and you know, and I'll go on my way and continue to grow the podcast. There's some things I want to check off. In the sport, like I do think my cape, I haven't realized capability wise, like what I am capable of. Like like last summer dude, a lot of it was figuring out how to actually race. You know, a lot of the guys I was going up against are sub 14 minute 5k runners or sub 30 minute 10k runners and it's like fuck. You know, like there's a steep learning curve and learning how to race these guys and gals.
Speaker 1:You know some of the best sub ultra females athletes in the world. So like now that I feel like I finally overcome a lot of that space and being able to like get a lot faster and improve a lot and learn how to race and learn the strategy, it'll never be fully realized, like I'm never going to be a hundred percent, but like I will say that I want to get a couple few more goals that I have, like check off, and then then I'm yeah, I'm just going to focus on the podcast and you know, give that gladly, give that spot to someone who who deserves it and should be in that space.
Speaker 2:So well, I'm. I'm glad you decided to do the podcasts and you're persevering. Did you're successful? You're killing it. Continue doing that, dude. Continue kicking butt in life, you know, with the wife and the fur babies.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Robbie and Luna.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want yep and I definitely uh want you on around 300, if that's okay, because I'm hitting 250. Never thought I'd be at 20. You know, I never thought I'd be past seven because that's how far. You know, podcasts are long, podcasts last or don't last, you know. And to even be near 250 says a lot and you know the listeners are loving it.
Speaker 1:I'm loving it it's a dude, it's a beautiful thing I love what you do and it's you know, I think we all have our like niche of what we like to like you, but you're I don't know. I think the thing I love about miles and mountains to me is like I knew shit about rodeos until I started listening to your podcast, the road, and then you know you also introduced me to other runners I would have never heard about.
Speaker 1:Obviously I knew who Bo Shelby was from, you and I talking, but I would have never known about him, Even Michael McKnight. Chris Fisher I think the first Chris Fisher podcast.
Speaker 2:I ever listened to.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Chris Fisher what a good dude. Yeah, the first Chris Fisher podcast I ever listened to was yours. Yeah, dude, the first Chris Fisher podcast I ever had on what or I ever listened to was yours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Jason man.
Speaker 1:Jason, hard wrath Wow.
Speaker 2:And you had him on dude.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, bro, he you know, he twisted my arm. He's coming on for episode 69,.
Speaker 2:I think in two days, something like that Sounds like him. Yeah, yeah, he sounds like him.
Speaker 1:Literally like I don't know astronomy or some, some crazy mountain or some crazy space shit and like the Fermi paradox.
Speaker 2:And I was like dude, he has time, he, I guess he recently hurt himself, so he has time. And dude, he's changing up a bit. Man, that age does that, dude age does that. But yeah, man, it's, it's. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on your podcast. Man, I appreciate this conversation. Definitely been a little busy lately with the podcast, but more and more falling in love with it. Man, it's never going to get old, whether I get sponsored or not. I'm not even sponsored, so it's all independent and I just have fun doing it. Man, and sharing people's stories is what I love and continue sharing. You know what you do and what you love.
Speaker 1:So thank you At the end of the day. Like you know, I, I I just want to let you know just how much respect and admiration I have for your story and, just like your, your story of perseverance to be able to have gone through such a serious situation in the last year. Uh, you know, I just want you to know like how much I, you know, hold that you know to such a high level. You know, uh, you're, you're super strong dude I really expect that and it means a lot to me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming on yeah, I'm honored that you have me on it and since you know, you know I'm, I'm, I don't fit the status quo.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, just massive man For you. It's listen, dude, you're the pot. Like I said, you're the pot. You're the one who came up. You know, when I brought you to the idea, you're like yeah, you really need to to pursue this. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Well, get it going, man. Shout out to everybody that's listening. So shout out to James, man. Thank you, James.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man Dude, thank you. Have a wonderful night and let's do the first amendment. Yep, yep, we'll see you next time.