Miles & Mountains
Join Nick, a social worker and coach by day, as he unravels the inspiring stories of athletes and the public, uncovering the motivations behind their actions, from conquering mountains to participating in ultra-endurance races and competing in rodeos. Get ready for heartwarming tales of community support, acts of kindness, and the revelation that everyone has a deeper story to tell. Whether it's running, climbing, or participating in rodeos, these stories will inspire and uplift. #Running, #Climbing, #EverydayAthletes, #Rodeo
Miles & Mountains
Crafting Creativity in the Brewing World with Robbie Narquis
Get ready to embark on a brewing adventure with us as we sit down with Robbie Narquis, the mastermind behind the viral "tree beer" sensation. Robbie's infectious enthusiasm for homebrewing, combined with an innovative approach to brand promotion, has kept him thriving in the ever-evolving world of craft beer. We explore the journey from a pandemic-induced homebrewing boom to the current challenges of sustaining interest, diving into Robbie's half-barrel brewing setup and his unique merchandise collaborations with his wife. Whether you're a seasoned brewer or just curious about the craft, this conversation promises insights and inspiration.
Our discussion goes beyond the hops and barley as we touch on maintaining a niche identity in the craft brewing scene. Discover the Archangel series—a fascinating blend of beer artistry and faith-inspired flavors. With stories of brewing inside a giant pumpkin and creating seasonal favorites, we highlight the creativity and passion driving the craft beer community. Social media's role in shaping modern brewing practices and fostering connections among enthusiasts is another intriguing aspect we explore, painting a vibrant picture of this dynamic community.
From the challenges of transitioning to professional brewing to the rise of non-alcoholic beverages, we cover it all. Robbie shares his experience with competitions, experimentations with hop varieties, and the complexities of barrel aging. Our episode concludes with an exploration of the growing trend of health-conscious brewing, as he discuss developing a robust 100-calorie beer and the exciting potential of small-scale barrel aging. Tune in for a rich blend of stories, expertise, and the shared joy of brewing creativity.
Instagram:
@chainsawbrewing
https://www.instagram.com/chainsawbrewing?igsh=MWhqYnRrMTR5ZzJneg==
Shoutout to:
Robbie Narquis
The Narquis Family
Chainsaw Brewing
Alter Ego Ambassador: https://alteregorunning.com/
Miles & Mountains Promo Code: Milesmountainsyr3
Robbie Narcos. How are ya, robbie narcos? How are you?
Speaker 2:hey doing great thanks for having me up here yeah, it's good to have you out here man at my place at the teacup studio.
Speaker 1:I'm here first time, first time, and uh, I mean the bed looks pretty or the couch looks pretty rancid, not rancid, just a little out of place. It's huge Out of shape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, dude, welcome, welcome. Long time no see, but a long time since you've been on the podcast. A lot of things have changed, not just in my podcast, but in the brewing world, the home brewing world. So, robbie dude, you ever think your beer would be the highlight of December 2024?
Speaker 2:I had no idea that that would happen. Yeah, I mean being on Instagram and everything. I like putting out some videos every once in a while and sometimes some stick and do everything and get maybe 5,000, 10,000 views on some stuff. That's pretty cool and different in the world. But with this one in December with the tree beer, yeah, it's topped over 2 million 2 million views on Instagram on a reel. I didn't think I was in that kind of game when I was doing it and it's reached people across the entire world that way. People who weren't even in brewing it just pops up because it was trending so much. Yeah, one of the top trending videos of like the last two weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, compare and contrast from last year. I know you made a video last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the fifth year I've done it, so I've done a video every year, okay I don't know what truly made this one different. Besides, maybe just video work is just getting a little bit better. Is it the music? I don't know is it the soundtrack.
Speaker 1:I think soundtrack can help yeah soundtrack can help.
Speaker 2:I, I know that does help boost certain areas. But if soundtrack is saturated, stuff moves quick. Yeah, so for me to get a lot of views really quick, that probably happened. And then when the metrics and everything see something that's getting a lot of views quickly on a soundtrack that gets a lot of traffic, they usually stick those to the top, even though people are turning videos with that music pretty quick. Okay, all right, I just kind of wanted a jolly Christmas background with that music and that's just kind of how it turned out with the Treebear.
Speaker 1:Have you looked at from last year's to this year's numbers?
Speaker 2:Yes, last year I did get like 500,000.
Speaker 1:500,000, but not compared to this year.
Speaker 2:And I do have about, I don't know. There's about 2,000, 2,500 followers more than last year. Okay, but just with this video and its own, I've doubled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my okay, do you think? Do you think it has to do with homebrewing as a?
Speaker 2:whole, I would say I don't know, because there was a spike in 2020. A lot of people staying at home, of course, the yeah you know what um came along and, uh, a lot of people wanted to do some hobbies and brewing got kind of big again for some people and it's been a couple years now. People's attention spans usually last one to two years on a hobby, especially if it doesn't kick off. So, honestly, the past year or two, I'd say it's actually died down a little bit. The hobby in general, the people who have stuck it out, are the people that are doing a lot more different things and yeah, that's the whole point of home brewing is experimenting. I'm not here turning barrels amount of beer. I mean my system, I mean you could, I could, yeah, you could, but I just do. I do a half barrel full-size keg set up right now and you're happy with I'm happy with that even though it's high in demand high in demand.
Speaker 2:It goes quick, but that's that's why it's good. It's a good system for me, to where I don't have stuff hanging around but but I'm not.
Speaker 1:I'm not cheesing. I mean, you are high in demand. You got a lot of my buddies were gonna come in here. One of my buddies was gonna come here and get some of your brew, yeah, but uh, you know, just have a couple, yeah, um that's the point he couldn't make it, but we will touch base, yeah the homebrewing stuff.
Speaker 2:It's cool. I mean, I tried to dedicate my beer to something greater and everything, and so I do that and my beer is free. I can't sell my beer, of course, that's one day homebrewing. One day, one day but I got lots of cool hats and shirts. That's why I do what you gave me.
Speaker 1:I do Thank you.
Speaker 2:I do lots of cool artwork with my brand, my logo, yeah, and that's kind of how I can get beer out by showing off I'm going to wear that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the hat wear looks great, the beading Looks great. Yeah, thank you, thank you. But yeah, also, you do a lot of work etching. Yeah, yeah, your own etching. Yeah, my wife what is it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's laser engraving. Yeah, laser, my wife has that. She does a ton of work with that. I play around with it as well with my brewing, uh, logos and things. But yeah, that's my wife's kind of gig. She knows a little, a lot of the tricks and things like that. And uh, yeah, now we're getting into leather patches and heat pressing onto hats. Now we're doing into leather patches and heat pressing onto hats. Now we're doing our own hats. I'm wearing one of them right now, one of our new ones.
Speaker 2:And the etcher does that, yeah, we can laser right onto the patch, and then we just got a hat press.
Speaker 1:Now do you glue it on? Yeah, it's a heated hat.
Speaker 2:Okay, but I tried to rip one. I wanted to see how good they were. Yeah, I pressed, did the press and tried to rip it off, and it was pretty much impossible.
Speaker 1:So you got a whole system you have to really yank on that thing.
Speaker 2:Your hat would be ruined by the time you deal with that.
Speaker 1:You have a whole system in your garage.
Speaker 2:It's a fun.
Speaker 1:Not only, it's our hobbies.
Speaker 2:Yeah. My wife and I like to work and keep things interesting with creating. We're a bunch of creators there.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are With four kids. Don't know how you do it With four kids.
Speaker 2:Don't know how you do it. Four kids under seven.
Speaker 1:So do you think the homebrewing, your homebrewing, is a hobby.
Speaker 2:Yes, currently it's definitely a hobby for me. I mean, my day job is kind of what keeps me going with all that, being able to come home to not only having awesome kids and a family that's loving and caring, but something to do on my own time. And the beer really kind of keeps me going, even if I'm not even in. My interest is much more in the creation and the artwork and the art of brewing. Yeah, I love dealing with um distributors and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I try to make sure all my beers, of course, are grown here in washington, but majority of my ingredients are usually always either the grain the grain is pretty much always from eastern washington uh, from farmers, and so I get to know the farmers that way. That's kind of how I really want to make sure that. And then, of course, the hops are all yakima valley. Um, being this close to yakima valley, it's pretty much yeah, that's pretty much how you get your hops around here, but getting them fresh and being able to go straight to the farmer and know them by name and them knowing me and their and them trusting you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, knowing that supportive that they am for me just being this humble home brewer yeah, just little little things, but the beer speaks for itself from what people have told me, more than just a home brewer. And when you start dealing with all your products are winning competitions and I'm not just using plastic buckets and letting stuff ferment on a whim. Everything is controlled. I pretty much have 100% scaled down full brewery in my garage where it's yeah, everything's stainless glycol chiller system, all fermentation is controlled to a tenth of a degree and everything trying to keep it just as consistent as I can.
Speaker 2:And I know going from this level to commercial level, that's always the big change, like, yeah, I can make it at this level, but scaling up and everything, and that's when things kind of change. So I am starting to get into I. I do know a lot of the brewers around here yakimaima Valley, spokane, small cities I know at least a couple at each in each city, and I know that they want to keep doing stuff. I've done a couple upscales of my recipes with them and they've always turned out great. They've they've been able to sell out my recipes out there.
Speaker 1:Which ones ones, if you don't mind me asking um.
Speaker 2:So last year, or yeah, last year, I did a um an india pale lager which is ipa but uses lager yeast and just a little bit lighter bodied uh uses house. But that was my saw all day. That was I won that. That was a competition that I won and was able to scale up my recipe up at Black Label Brewing in.
Speaker 1:Spokane Yep.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I've started to become good friends with those guys up there. Every time I'm in Spokane, stop by and they want to keep doing more with me. And then a new brewery that's just out of Yakima or Natchez, just outside Natchez, and Titan or Teton, wherever however, they want to say that Titan, um short head brewing. Good buddy Chris over there. He started this brewery he was, uh, kind of like the experimental brewer at Yakima Valley hops and then started his own brewery and he started that. He opened up this past spring.
Speaker 1:Him and I are going to be doing a brew next month, him and I are coming up with a recipe to do so. We'll scale up a recipe together up there.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I know he's what's the bird? Uh, his name's chris my lorry.
Speaker 1:Okay, what's the brewery?
Speaker 2:the brewery's called short head short head, okay, yeah so he was, uh, in the quarry industry, he was operator. So a short head is basically, I think, the machine that basically crunches all the gravel and everything Makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense. Okay, all right. So where are you going to get something local?
Speaker 2:Like a space. No A space to sell or something on tap, just a person that will share your recipe.
Speaker 1:You can share your recipe, not so much you know, going there and show them what's done. I mean pretty much you're gonna go, yeah, and show them what's how it's done. But like, when are you gonna share a recipe and make a presence in tri-cities? Um?
Speaker 2:I hope that sometime soon. I know weed heads has been. They just opened up a, they're coming up on their year anniversary and I know they're just getting things situated. But I know the guys there and they keep saying, yeah, we need to do something together, let's do a collective, we need to brew together. So I think it's coming, I don't know when.
Speaker 1:Patience, Patience young Jedi.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it'll come someday, someday, and it'll for me.
Speaker 1:I think they're sleeping on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they're sleeping on you. I understand the business side of things. They want to make sure everything, especially in a first year. But I know Weed Heads wants to do a lot of collaboration stuff. They just did a collaboration with Valley Brewing in Yakima. They're wanting to do some and they did it with what's the brewery over in Pasco Sage.
Speaker 1:Sage.
Speaker 2:That one was solid. They did a collective with them, that one was solid. That's the thing. That's just different. I felt like in the Tri-Cities scene is not as much collaborations between the breweries.
Speaker 1:Well, you can't collaborate a lot like Varietal. I mean Varietal has they're the master of collaborators, so it's like sunny side yeah, yeah, awesome, yeah, but no, I think stuff is.
Speaker 2:I think if they want to know that to survive in this industry, they're gonna have to come together a little bit more. It's kind of breweries gonna. Breweries are still just popping, popping off, going away, um, yeah, and there's some new ones coming, but there's also ones leaving at the same time, so it's it's a hard industry right now. I had 2019 when so I started doing this brewing, kind of like 2017 time frame. I did some uh, it was in the wine industry before that.
Speaker 2:If people listen to the last podcast, I kind of talked about how I started with my fermentation and everything in the wine industry. But 2017 is when I really started getting into brewing. And then 2019, just a new year of 2020 as well. I had like a business plan Because I wanted to maybe do this full time not full time but like side gig as well as my day job and kind of just do like a weekend place to have beer and yeah beer on tap somewhere, a couple taps and not make a big deal out of it, but also make a big deal out of it as in you have to go in to get it or else it's gonna be gone.
Speaker 2:I kind of like that, that I don't want to just mass produce and just have my stuff everywhere. I kind of want it to be this little kind of thing, and I'm not sure I know people would say, oh, you should just go as big as it can go. I was like, but for my personal feeling, I like that kind of niche little oh, you need to go there. If you're not going to be there at this time, okay, you might be screwed out of a beer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah not knowing, knowing the system, knowing your system, knowing how beer around here is and you know elsewhere. Do you find it as a little niche or do you find yourself knowing that if you do put yourself out there, it's a lot bigger than you think? Yeah, oh yeah, but right now you're just sticking to your guns and you're going small, sticking small, yep. Right now you're just sticking to your guns and you're you're going. You're going small, sticking small, yep, even though, like you have what you have, the uh, the three series which is phenomenal, right, which the the archangel.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh yeah. Yeah, that's a series I put out this year. Yes, and it's something I'm going to probably be doing every year. Yeah, but I'm going to make it different every year, so it's going to be a different hop. So how that went for the people that don't know or has followed, I did an Archangel series.
Speaker 1:I wanted you on for that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did an Archangel series, which was basically I brewed the same beer, same base beer, three times in a row, but just changed out the different hops in each one. I wanted a different series of hops in each beer, but the same base.
Speaker 1:So phenomenal um. It's a good way.
Speaker 2:It's a good way to like taste through some hops and kind of see what works together, what doesn't. Um, to me, all they, all those varieties that I did with each of those series, turned out to work really well together so, but one or two really stood out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was two right two and two or three. Um, it was probably the same, it was two right Two or three.
Speaker 2:I knew it was, it was probably the, so it was St Michael, st Gabriel and St Raphael. St Raphael was the one that was like a lot of Australian New Zealand hops, so it's a lot more tropical. It was a more tropical style, whereas the St Michael, of course, st Michael's the tried and true OG angel.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he's, he got all the ones that are like your traditional style hops with Citra and Citra and Idaho 7.
Speaker 1:You really tasted the Idaho 7.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was like very citrus forward, how you usually want an IPA very citrus and then St Gabriel the messenger like very citrus forward. I usually want an IPA very citrus and then St Gabriel the Messenger. I forgot which one. The Gabriel one was the one that had like Centennial Simcoe hops.
Speaker 1:Okay, what inspired you to do that? Those three archangels and those three beers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of just I knew I wanted to try different hop series. I didn't. That's kind of what I, with being a home brewer, I can kind of do in these do these little experiments and not have to worry about turning them or worrying about having to make them again. I'm kind of just doing a full go at them.
Speaker 2:But what really drew me to it was, I mean, archangels are a major presence for me and a lot of my faith and stuff like that, being Catholic and everything like that, I just kind of wanted to think of something that went well in three and I know there's three main archangels and it kind of just worked out that way and so each year now I'm going to re-release them every year, but it's going to be a different hop series every time. So there's some breweries that do that, that they have like a rotating beer that changes out the hops and that's kind of like this is my kind of version. But then I want to do it so I have three at a time so people can have three beers side by side and then kind of taste through that, cause that's something that I really like doing and, coming from the wine industry, like it's a lot about tasting a lot, a lot about knowing where your crop comes from and yeah, so it's.
Speaker 2:it's really fun. I think I'm not just here to just drink beer and then just drink, and then just drink Like I'm really wanting to dive deeper into every beer I drink and okay um, kind of like wine and everything like that.
Speaker 1:But um, so you have that, you have tasters, and then you've had all positive reviews in that yeah, people loved it.
Speaker 2:Uh, when people want some, I'm usually okay with sending some stuff out to people and, pretty much like I said, I can't sell the. I'm usually okay with sending some stuff out to people and, pretty much like I said, I can't sell the beer, I'm okay with that. But I usually sell a swag item with that and that usually covers it. Like I said, my day job covers a lot of this that I'm doing. I just kind of want to break even and the money I make off any of the swag and stuff like that just goes straight back into ingredients. Like I'm not using this to make any sort of capital gains on anything. Basically just the art. It's just the cover, the cover the fun.
Speaker 2:And I love doing that, so I'm not necessarily worried about getting in. People want to try it Like, yeah, I'm okay, I'm not a stickler on people.
Speaker 1:Why not keep one on tap? Because you the stickler on people. Why not keep one on tap? Because you have that garage and you do have guests throughout your neighborhood visiting you right, Good old neighbors and you know they have a lot to say. They have a lot to say. Why not have one of those beers like the most voted? You know, high voting beer. Yeah, on tap year round All around.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's a good idea, why not? Like I said, I'm down for people telling me things and I'm down to listen, but there's a, like I said, I can have beers going like that if we want. I just don't know. I have like six recipes that I know, that are nailed down, and ones that I know. That's something that I would truly want to scale up. I'd have to bring up on my notes which in each and every single one. But I mean, I think I have, like I have a pale ale, two IPAs and then a lager, a pilsner, so that's two, three, four five. So that's two, three, four five. Um, one more, I think it's. Then it's more like a, a darker beer that I had, but it's no, no, it's the, my irish red, that's what? Yeah, darker. So it's an irish beer that I make every single year for saint patrick's day.
Speaker 1:I know I like that yeah, you normally stick with seasons yeah, I try to do seasonal styles and keep it going and not yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, With my time. Like I said, my time has been shortened.
Speaker 1:The past year or two. Congrats on the baby. Yeah, with new baby again.
Speaker 2:and just kind of going through that motion again. But it's fun I love. I wouldn't want anything different yeah.
Speaker 1:But you brew year-round and it is crazy the time that you find to brew yeah and, yes, you have your oldest daughter. Yep, you know, helping you out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she comes in and she's my good hop edition, but with little kid with the archangel.
Speaker 1:You have two other hot seasonal beers and that's the pumpkin yep the crazy imperial imperial automail yeah, yeah, yeah, that one's the main, uh, main staple yeah, and then that's my heavy hitter you have the the tree beer yes, those two are you're known for yeah, I know soon. Archangels will soon be there, as high up as the tree beer and the pumpkin beer. Yeah, when will you have one that stays in year in, year out and you just make it just for you?
Speaker 2:Constantly making sure it's there all the time yeah.
Speaker 2:I would say I might need to get a couple of these people together and we're going to have to vote on which one, because I could say my own thing. Everyone has a different palate, what everyone likes, and I know there's people that just like variety as well. That's me, being one person. Yes, I like knowing that breweries have stuff on tap all the time the same ones, but I'm also a person that wants to go in and try something different every time yeah, but if it ain't broke, don't yeah exactly I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not trying to fix or change anything, but yeah, it's um a lot of these beers. I'm just getting nailed down but I will. If that's something that we want to do, we can definitely I can make it happen. Okay, I can make it. It's not like I can't make a beer on tap all the time.
Speaker 1:With your Imperial the Autumn.
Speaker 2:Pumpkin Yep the Old.
Speaker 1:Souls, the Old Souls, right. How many people homebrewers or anybody out there have you seen brew that kind of beer the way you do?
Speaker 2:I've seen just throughout social media, of course. It's kind of where you can kind of see all this stuff do? I've seen, uh, just throughout social media, of course it's kind of where you can kind of see all this stuff. I've seen it a handful of times. I don't know about to the scale that I'm doing. Yeah, actually, like mashing the entire beer in a pumpkin.
Speaker 2:I'm sure someone else has done it before, I mean I. There's probably people that have done it. Don't video it or something like that. I don't think I'm doing. I'm doing something crazy, of course, but I don't video it or something like that. I don't think I'm doing. I'm doing something crazy, of course, but I don't know if it's never not been done. I know people do pumpkin beers every year and I know they serve beer out of pumpkins at multiple different breweries around the United States. I know that they serve them out of it. Um, but for me, actually getting a giant pumpkin at my house, gutting it, toasting it, it, and then mashing an entire half barrel beer inside of this 285 pound pumpkin, I'd say that's. That's definitely unique. Yeah, um, and whether people think that it really does something, uh, that's for them to choose and not not just say it without trying it. Um, and I understand everyone doesn't like pumpkin beers.
Speaker 2:I'm not even necessarily a pumpkin beer fan yeah I mean, I like this beer because it's a lot more of the earthy take on it, where it's not just pumpkin spice, it has vanilla beans, it has some cinnamon added to it, nutty, I have roasted pecans and walnuts in it, so it's a lot more going on. And, yeah, the vanilla beans are soaked in bourbon for a couple weeks beforehand as well.
Speaker 1:What inspired you to do that beer? That was, and continue that beer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so me and a friend of mine who used to do some brewing together for fun, when I was first kind of getting started, our families went to Pumpkin Patch together and we said let's try to find the biggest one, just to find the biggest one We've. Our families went to pumpkin patch together and we said let's try to find the biggest one, but just to find the biggest one. We weren't even thinking of beer. I was like once we started seeing some of these big ones were like we could probably put liquid or something that we could make alcohol sound and so let's. And then we were getting that and so it kind of started. First two years we did it, so years we did it.
Speaker 2:So I've yeah, I've been doing that beer six, six or seven years now. Okay, um, always I've always made mine dark and so it's kind of a friend and I we used to. Just the first two years we kind of did it together and then I just kind of continued doing it every year and just kind of modifying it ever so slightly and just kind of getting it to the way that I want it. But I kind of like that where it's just slightly different every year. I usually keep a can or two from the year prior and taste them side by side.
Speaker 2:And of course that's an age and see how that goes, but it's usually a 9% or higher beer. So it's usually my beer. I want to have around a nice fall campfire and everything like that.
Speaker 1:You got any people that try to copycat? Yeah, they come and talk to you. Yeah, usually there's people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm, I'm. I'm not a person where nothing's a secret. I'll tell everyone my recipes. That, for a brewing world, I mean, everyone's gonna make a beer different. It's a different system, different location, different grain. I'm more than happy to give tips or pointers or whatever people want, and I know there's a couple of people that tried doing it a different way, where they would a lot of people would just get smaller pumpkins and then roast them and cut them up and then put them into the mash as well that way, which I think is perfect way of doing it. Like you can do that too For me. I way um, which I think is perfect way of doing it. Like that you can do that too for me. I like putting on. I have the neighbors over. We kind of make it a whole thing. It's a show, it's fun. Yeah, you get to put a bunch of hot wart and grain inside of a giant pumpkin. It's, it's fun, it's really fun to do um, and it kind of goes to that point where I'm just I'm doing that part for fun.
Speaker 1:I'm not trademarking anything on that, okay what about the pumpkin that just keeps you going on, man? Because pumpkin, you know psls, it's high in the female world. Oh yeah, it's high and you know, and that's why I tried to make it a much more darker, earthy like even though it's a higher in alcohol, it's a drier beer.
Speaker 2:It's not sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not a sweet beer guy, so usually my stuff is fermented pretty good. And yeah, I'm fine with the criticism on people. Like people can say whatever they want. They have their own thoughts. I'm not doing it to. I'm doing it because it's fun. And I mean I'm doing it it's fun and I mean I'm doing these multiple years and I keep getting good feedback from people that want it great feedback and I usually have no issues getting rid with a half a keg, so I I'll keep doing it half a keg gives you how many beers um yeah, I think that's.
Speaker 2:It's usually like 120 to 130 pints or so it. That's a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, have you ever considered? You know somebody say, hey, man, if you brew this, I'll put it in my shop, or you know whoever, wherever, and you ever feel like once somebody?
Speaker 2:finds out. Once you know your fans find out where it's at, you think it'll sell out in a day, two days. Less than that could be. Yeah, I think it could. Um, if people want to. There's people that want to contract me to do some and you've had some talks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some talks and I'm fine with the talks and if stuff moves forward, it moves forward. I'm not pushing anything. Like I said, I'm kind of just moving with the flow of it right now. Um, things are coming up with doing stuff at these commercial breweries now for me and, yeah, kind of do things that way and um, hopefully, when do those collaboration beers? That it does go quick and good. That's I, that's what I want for the brewery I'm helping out and brewing a beer at a brewery I want. I wanted to sell it quick, purely because I want that if I'm doing stuff at that brewery, I value that brewery and I want them to do good too.
Speaker 2:I want yeah and if for some reason, bringing me in does that, for that I don't know. That's always a crazy thought in my mind that people would bring me in to make their beer sell. I don't know. I don't know how many people would do that, but maybe I don't know, maybe I'm just too humble on that. You're too humble man, you're too humble dude.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've had your beer I tried it all, yeah no, I, I've had it all and I, you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm humble for you, dude but this is like there's beer all over and there good beer, and I don't want people to think that there can't be good beer other places. Good beer can come out of anywhere.
Speaker 1:So the home brewing world in Tri-Cities Mm-hmm, you're part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a good club about the whole. Yeah, mid-columbia Zymergy Association it's a great club. Gets it's a great club. It gets a lot of people started. A lot of people, I would say Come and go. Yeah, there's some come and goers, but there's also the people that have been there a long time and there's people that usually just come to taste and kind of learn their knowledge on more tasting stuff and where they're not doing as much of the brewing on their own. But we're open in this club for people just to get more knowledge on everything. It's not just a kegger club on drinking on once every Thursday, it's everything's tasting and we have quarterly competitions.
Speaker 1:And yeah.
Speaker 2:I try to make sure that just kind of display hey, this is beers that you can make at home, like I mean. Yes, it takes equipment and some time and years of knowledge, but it can be made to where you can make some of the best beer at home.
Speaker 1:Okay, so when did you start going to the home brewing meetings?
Speaker 2:It was probably like 2017, 2018.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. How has the numbers been? Have they just fluctuated?
Speaker 2:At the beginning it was pretty low, but then, yeah, I would say it's definitely gone up in the past couple years. We're staying pretty consistent now Steady. Yeah, the people that have stuck with it are staying there. And yeah, with being Tri-Cities, there's people that come in and then leave and move and stuff like that. There's people that come in and then leave and move and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:It's probably a silly question, but do a lot of them share the same love for the game as you do? Yeah, there's a handful.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say everyone. Some people just make beer to make beer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like just to get by, like dude Coors Light, you know, not necessarily no everyone's pretty crafty.
Speaker 2:Everyone wants to make a different craft beer, like there's people that want to just do the craziest thing every single time.
Speaker 1:But you know what I mean. Like hey, dude, you know I don't want to purchase Coors Light at the store. I'm going to make my light beer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the thing People thought Brewing would be like oh, you're going to save money on beer. It's like eh not really.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, seeing what you do, you want to do more you want to do more.
Speaker 2:You want to keep doing more. If you're interested in it. It'll just push you to want to buy more. Buy more equipment, the equipment. But my equipment has been steady for the past two years to where I haven't had to really buy anything equipment-wise. So say it's it's coming around. But yeah, it's still.
Speaker 1:It's still an investment, but just like any hobby, yeah, I wouldn't say it's more expensive than some other basic hobbies, though right you can get into money quick, if I mean just if you're doing hunting, like you're spending more money doing any sort of hunting right right you could buy a crazy good brewery system just for like one or two firearms or bows, like yeah, okay but you seeing what you, you spend right, whether it's a new keg or a new refrigerator, or new freezer or whatever you know, I try to make a lot of it my own too yeah fabricating things up on my own where um just kind of making it to the style of the system that I want.
Speaker 2:So I try to save money that way, buying some used and going out and drilling and but it's all paid off. It's all paid off.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, long run whether for reviews or, you know, compliments that kind of thing, you know, you seeing you your stuff and seeing shy dogs, you know. Oh yeah, it does get speedy man, yeah, so what? What brings you to continue on just brewing every day, dude?
Speaker 2:um, I would say just the uncertainty of the brewing industry currently and truly making enough money to, um, basically supply what my I mean my first thing is my family.
Speaker 2:So, making sure that I can do it good enough to uh supply my family with everything that they need, and I know that if I did want to turn this around and do it, I'd have support of my family. But right now my day job is good, oh yeah, and I'm not having any issues with it, and it's paying for my family and it's paying for my hobby. So it's a good thing right now and it's a good spot, but, um, but yeah, I would say that's the main thing is just the uncertainty of the industry, which right now it's just with this upcoming year uh, I know there's talk about all the tariffs and stuff like that, not to get too political on things I don't really.
Speaker 2:I know there's going to be a lot of change in just prices in general, and any time a price is raised for a brewery that's just less money. Or the time beer is going to be more. I mean, yeah, you're going into stores to get a craft four-pack of Tallboys. Now it's $15, $16. Whereas just five, just five, six years ago. You get them for 11. Yeah, so it's. I mean, it's going up a dollar or two every year for a pack.
Speaker 2:I would say, right, I got you so it's going quick and there's gonna I think there's gonna start being less and less people that are willing to spend that amount. And just turning back to the cheaper stuff, I don't know there's a lot of people that are still interested in it. I know that that want that will continue to pay I mean I still will if it's something but it will have to be a beer that sticks out, though. I'm not going to just go and just buy just another basic beer for the same price of something. That's Ooh, that always trying to, and that's kind of where I'm trending with some of these different styles of beers. I want stuff to kind of stick out and people I mean there's people that love what those things that I do and people think it's the dumbest thing that I'm doing, like, but to each their own people think it's the dumbest.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, like what? The tree, the hate? Yeah, there's plenty of hate. The hate.
Speaker 2:Oh it's, it's so fun, I like it doesn't bother me. I think it's hilarious that people would get so worried about things. There's people that oh I don't know people worry about such a small little, minuscule thing, about a beer making people sick somehow all right, man, you got homebrewing. Give us, give us people think homebrewing is always gonna make you sick, but that's the people that you don't have any control over.
Speaker 1:You're not cleaning, everything is so sanitation.
Speaker 2:I think there's probably some miscommunications On people thinking that I just run the beer Through the tree and then just put it straight in the fermenter, whereas it gets all reboiled, everything back.
Speaker 1:How many times?
Speaker 2:I recirculate. That's about four or five full turns of all the, all the wart being uh touched by the, by the luge and yeah branches and stuff like that. But then that's only halfway through my process and then it's I stop that and then I get the boiling going again for another 30 minutes after everything's kind of been touched and I kind of get the flavor profile I want.
Speaker 2:I can kind of taste it as it's going and kind of know, the extract extracting all the flavors that I want are there what's speaking of tree beer?
Speaker 1:I haven't mentioned that.
Speaker 2:I wanted to, yeah, I guess we'll start.
Speaker 1:Well. What's it mostly taste of or consist of this year? Has it changed?
Speaker 2:Yes, this year I changed the recipe. A lot yeah, I changed it too, because I wanted more body in this beer. The past couple of years it's been much lighter, like 6%. This year I bumped it up to 7%. And I added some more rye and I added some honey rye. So I wanted a little bit, not necessarily like sweet sweet, but it just rye sweetness, If that kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1:But it's the caramel rye. I've never had a rye that was sweet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's a caramel. It was adding a honey rye. So I use yeah, sorry, not a caramel rye honey rye. So it's a different kind of. It's a rye that's toasted differently and it has some honey aspect to it. So I just add a little bit more of that. The rye kind of gives more spiciness. I just wanted much more of a winter yeah, A winter tree IPA. And yeah, this whole thing of this beer is definitely a historic style beer. Uh, like finish finish origin, historical origin origin beer. There's a uh, I think it was. It's kind of it's like a wine they call it sati and it's like a wine that finish used to make and they used to run beer through like a trough, like a carved out trough of which you show and now, yeah, and that's kind of what I do I.
Speaker 2:I run it down a luge, um, but mine's reboiled. Their old style is like it's all like farmhouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah so it's all gets all the nice yeast out in the nature and they kind of just ferment it that way and that's why it was a farmhouse wine that they used to make back in the historic days. And I just kind of put the Pacific Northwest twist on it to make it in the historic days and I just kind of put it the Pacific Northwest twist on it to make make it an IPA. And people are IPA haters and people will say, oh, it's another IPA, another thing, Another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like well, it seems like the haters are winning, so let's, let's, let's go. Yeah, it's funny how you just keep it simple, you're like it's funny, and then you go on and You're like, yeah, the haters, the haters, so let's go away from the haters, oh yeah. What's the biggest compliment you've had so far in this 2 million viewed video.
Speaker 2:Biggest compliment there's a couple people who are actual head brewers at breweries that have posted comments saying I've been brewing for the past 25, 30 years. I have never seen anything crazy like this this is awesome crazy. So that's kind of I like those kind of things just because it's crazy or weird or different yeah um, that's kind of really what I wanted to focus on, just something different.
Speaker 2:But it the thing is, it works. It's not just uh, yes, it's a good video and it grabs attention, but the beer is actually, honestly, one of my favorite beers that I make and it's got kind of all the flavors that I like. Personally, I wouldn't say this is everyone's favorite. I like that kind of resinous, pine, woodsy flavor and that's exactly what you get out of it with the cutting cutting into the wood and extracting just some of the extra flavors of it out of that, and then pine needles. I love a really good piney ipa like. That's a flavor that I really like. I always go back to, um, but yeah, that's it's. How many pints have you had?
Speaker 2:of your own supply, since um I've honestly probably have only had like a six pack okay, because everyone else wanted it yeah it was pretty much all accounted for before I even had it in the keg. Yeah, so I was able to have I. I think in my own personal stock I was able to have 16 beers okay, but everything else, everything else Is it gone, yeah.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:So everyone that wanted, everyone that wanted, I put it. I made a list. Yeah, Made a list and checked it twice. Yeah.
Speaker 1:For Christmas, even before you did Okay, yeah, it was before it was even kegged.
Speaker 2:I said I remember Because I know people want it. My friends, I always make sure the people who come and taste my stuff often get the first dibs.
Speaker 1:Jesse get his first dibs, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, all my neighbors. Yeah, we're all good.
Speaker 1:Man, how many four six-packs did Jesse get man?
Speaker 2:Oh, I limited it. Yeah, yep, okay, so he just got the one four-pack. With that said I mean, like I I said I have a couple of my own private stock. I mean those will be special, though I had to save a couple for next year, because I'd like to do that, I like to taste the last years to this year's and have you even considered a uh winter, uh competition?
Speaker 2:um, I, I did want to try and do it. I wouldn't really know. I think I'd have to put it into specialty IPA or just IPA class. I guess it's just kind of hard in these competitions. They make the competitions, you make them to the BJCP style, they have a style guidelines. If you kind of go out of that zone, you make them to the BJCP style and they have a style guidelines, right. And if you kind of go out of that zone, you get docked, even if it's good, yeah, because for this you're trying to make it to style Okay, and it's good that they made a specialty IPA category, because that kind of gives free reign on what to do. But some for the judges. Maybe that judge liked a hazy, that was better, and it's kind of hard putting it up against something dude exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need to try and do it, you did your red lager correct yeah the irish, yeah the irish red yeah, last year correct yes it's time to move on that one get your imperial in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get the tree beer in. Yep, what's stopping you from that?
Speaker 2:is it more so? Is I kind of, just kind of?
Speaker 1:go through that. Huh, you're not afraid, are you no?
Speaker 2:not afraid. No, I do you kind of submit everything, but I think I just got distracted, honestly, and all the other people wanting it, and you have to send in three beers in, so it's like why don't you do that?
Speaker 1:Imperial. This one and then some other, like the one that you did at the wedding your buddy's. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The one that was actually the national winner or national medalist, See the Sawdown Unda.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:The Pilsner zealand pilsner. Yeah, yeah, that's so. What's stopping you?
Speaker 1:nothing, really, because you've been doing this. You've been doing this for a while besides just being busy and just not really I don't know and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I enter something in the competition and it does, well, it'm curious what would I mean, yeah, I do like entering competitions, but I kind of just do it when the competition time works out for me.
Speaker 1:I'm not necessarily I'm curious what this is gonna do. I don't know your label.
Speaker 2:You have tree beard yeah, imperial, they go in. They go in unlabeled, so it's empty it's high in demand and your friends and people around tri-cities that know of oh yeah, and about you exactly who's not saying it's high in demand and, uh, award-winning well like I said, across the globe I've I sent probably 20 packages out um with shirts and everything like that in it, um labels and stuff like that. There's people that want it.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's people that think it's the craziest thing ever and they would have no idea. Some people were skeptical and wanted some anyway and they're like, hey, can I get a? Can? I? Just want to try this. I don't know if I'm even going to like it, honestly, I just want feedback. What I do is I want to make sure that I get a feedback from them. So yeah, buy a shirt, get free beer.
Speaker 1:That's usually how I go with my stuff. What is it going to take for you to understand that your beer is high in demand? I'm not just saying that as a friend and a consumer. Yep, can't drink right now and I'm not drinking guys because I'm in treatment and I got my third treatment out of four coming tomorrow but can't drink to start brewing for them year round. Would you do it if the pay's right or if it works out?
Speaker 2:fun schedule yeah, I mean, I definitely would want it to make worth worth my while. Same cake, the cake that you, you do yeah, so if like to do this at a brewery that's already established and just be a help out, or or like a a restaurant that wants to have a house beer and they have a location where I can go, and that's what's really holding me back. I mean my location. Yes, it's still technically residential, so I can't really do anything about that, unless I got a separate building to do it in.
Speaker 1:But what if they say, hey, you got you, you get what? Uh, a contract? Saying, hey, you keep the house beer year round. You change it when you feel like changing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you think that's something I want to get interested for yeah, I think and that's something I'd want to get into first, honestly before dipping my entire thing, because that's another thing I'm pretty specific on what I want yeah, and I don't want to just jump I don't want to jump into a commercial scene, I don't want to just hey, I'm making good beer, let's just start a brewery.
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm for me. That is years out of my grasp and what I want to do, because I don't want it to just start up and like, oh what, what do I do? I want to like start slow and just kind of work up into that really slow, and not just throw everything into one Right, and then if I just have this giant setup and everything right away and something doesn't work out or it just doesn't seem to be the right place, or anything like that, I don't want to be that deep in.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So so let's say, somebody offers you that, yeah, no questions asked, you'll, you'll do it. Yeah, I would love to. If the price isn't right, yeah, does the price have to be right for you to? Go on or is it?
Speaker 2:still the love of the game. Love of the game at that point too, because I wouldn't it would, it wouldn't be a full-time thing, and I wouldn't want it to be full-time right now in my life.
Speaker 1:I mean it could be if it's high in demand. Yeah, that's what I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could. It could turn that way and if it does and everything looks right, I'll accept that. Okay, like I said, with my faith in everything, I kind of let things kind of work in that direction. I'm not forcing anything. If it kind of comes to me and everything's good, I kind of accept that and kind of know the calling's there. I know people say, oh, I'm sure you've already had a calling. Oh, your beer's great. I was like people have made great beer for a long time but it's a whole different making your brewery but not homebrewing here, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. Growing up especially, oh yeah, in college homebrewing was shit yep, it was awful you know, and that was the pacific, it was just make it as much bitter or as much alcohol as you could exactly, and it was just like you know what the good beer is deschutes or rogue at the time and that you know I went to school pacific northwest. So it was either a rogue or deschutes, you know, and, and people bring their homebrew and it's just like, oh my god, let's, let's, let's go back to deschutes.
Speaker 1:You know, and, and people bring their home brew and it's just like, oh my god, let's, let's, let's go back to deschutes, or let's go back to rogue or you know, whatever that's already been crafted and at the store, oh yeah, um, but that right there, when people continue to tell you they like it, they like it, they like it, and they like it, they like it and it's doing good in competitions.
Speaker 2:I know it's there. And I know, people are just itching. But, maybe I kind of want to let those people have that itch for a long time.
Speaker 1:But a lot of people have been itching for how long, though, like how long, how long You've been homebrewing, for how long?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 2017.
Speaker 1:So, three eight years coming up eight years, coming up on eight years, and you've mastered. Do you feel, like I would say the past.
Speaker 2:I would say the past four years has been where best beers come out of yours, just in general for me like my best beers. The past four years have been really good and each year it's gotten better and I'm finding ways to make things more efficient. I'm finding each year I'm learning a little bit differently on how to make my process just a little bit better, a little bit easier.
Speaker 1:Um but, then that's but then you see some people that went from home brewing to you know big brewing and it's just straight up ass yeah I know and that's always in the back of my mind, but, um, I don't know why that would.
Speaker 2:I don't really understand why that would happen. It's either that or they just aren't cleaning as deep as they are. I mean, yes, it's, it's. I guess it's a little bit easier to clean a smaller setup, but you just have to like I always tell people you're a glorified janitor when you're a brewer, you're 80 cleaning% cleaning. 20% of it's the fun brewing part. But if you go into that really, truly knowing that you're going to be cleaning, have the best cleaning setup. That's the main thing. Have the best cleaning setup and have the best fermentation control. A brew system is a brew system. You can make beer out of any sort of setup. It doesn't have to be crazy special for that part. It all truly, in my mind, depends on your sanitization and your fermentation control. You can make the best beer and you put it in a fermenter and it's not clean. It'll be the worst beer ever.
Speaker 1:So that was where I always try to focus my main work on Cleaning, sanit, sanitization, fermentation control when people fail, especially like when you see the breweries going out of business, does that scare you a bit? It does scare you on wanting to take it to another level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that's the main thing that's holding me back. I'm not main thing and just know it. In the industry in general, it's a hard industry. It's a hard industry just to be a brewery. Yeah, and I know if I started a brewery it would have to turn into having a kitchen and stuff like that, and not even it has to be big. But it's the only way you're truly going to kind of cut your cut your limit on is you're going to need to have something else.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I don't really want to start a brewery to be able to do it, to have to do something else. So it would have to come into where I'd have to have someone to help me with or do that with me. And I had to have the right person, right, I can't just choose a buddy, buddy or just even a. But I can't even just choose a buddy, like I don't want something to get ruined because of this. I don't want a friendship to get ruined. I don't want, I don't want them to think it's just, oh, my friend's starting this brewery and I'm gonna help him out. Every so often it's like I've I'm a little adhd. I guess you would say on that, unlike, and it's nothing against people, it's just my own, I got you I kind of have to have.
Speaker 2:Even if it's something I don't even really know that much about, I still kind of want to have control over it, and I don't know if that might not sit well with a lot of people I want to get on there. I would probably have to make sure that they're good on that and have to just kind of let go as best I could.
Speaker 1:But I just want to know what to be an owner man. I just want to know what's it gonna take for for you to understand, like dude, what's it going to take for you to move up? So you're being honest.
Speaker 2:Industry is sporadic, I would say that's maybe a couple of years and it settles out and people figure out what's working in a brewery scene. Because there was such a mass population of like uptick in breweries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, past five to eight years there's been a ton and then they've died and then there was a massive break off where there was even good breweries closing or and for me it's not even if I made something, made a brewery and it turned out to be really good, I don't even know how I would take if I know some of these bigger brewery, if I went bigger and I started just doing more and more instead of just being like this small, really niche craft yeah, homebrew, not homebrew, but just brewery in general um, here in uh, tri-cities area.
Speaker 2:If it went to where you need to start making more bigger, let's go 10 barrel system, let's go big start, just start distributing, um, and it gets distributing and then get some of the the big, the big brewery companies come in and say, hey, we want to buy, buy you out or something. I don't know how I would deal with that because, honestly, that's a huge. I know there's people that say, oh, nothing with big beer, I don't have any, truly anything against big beer, yeah they're there.
Speaker 2:They're a big company. They buy smaller breweries out and hopefully that there's a couple that have done it really well, that they've kept a lot of the same people at those small breweries and they still continue to make good beer.
Speaker 2:They just they got bought out and they have a lot more money now to do a lot more. Yeah, and I have nothing against brewers that do that or breweries that do that. I don't I know there's people in the craft beer scene that have that don't like when small breweries do that. Yeah, they think it hurt. I mean, yeah, I don't know if I guess they think it hurts. I mean, yeah, I don't know if it I guess it can't. It hurts the industry, I guess. But as a personal, personal thing, it's like the best thing, best feeling. I'm sure you did something good and there's a big company that wants to buy you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know people don't want to sell out. But for me, if I sold out my setup or my thing and they said, oh, we'll still have your brew, I wouldn't and I get tons more money. I don't know. It's a business, I want to make it. I'm not just doing it for the love of the craft and I love it for the craft, but it's also still a business. I think that's where a lot of people can get themselves in trouble. They're doing it so much for the love of craft that they aren't thinking about all the other stuff that comes with it All the people that have been bought out.
Speaker 1:they're back in the game, right?
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:Legion and Cloudburst correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't they?
Speaker 1:They were bought out.
Speaker 2:Oh, they were. Okay, I didn't know if they were. They started back again correct?
Speaker 1:I believe so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, hot Valley got bought out.
Speaker 1:There's bigger hit and miss with some things, but it was the water. It all tastes the same. It's always the water, always the water. So what's next on your list? Man, we got the tree beer out of the way. Mm-hmm, I think you should make more of it.
Speaker 2:But next year. My wife gave me the idea that once we take down our Christmas tree, that just make another beer out of it like hey you got another tree, you can just try it again. That is tempting and then she said we could see how it tastes from different after it's sat up in the house for a month and see if it'd be a bit drier yeah, I'd probably just not be as much. Yeah, not as much extraction out of it.
Speaker 1:But who knows, who knows? But what's? What's next, man um?
Speaker 2:hopefully I'll do my um, dark days, dark lager again. I don't know if you got to have that one I'd make. I'd make that one every january. So this will be the third year of it. Uh, the first year I made it. It was good, but there was definitely something I wanted to change on it. So last year made those changes and I think it worked out great. So this year I'm going to try to recreate it. Um, basically same recipe. So it's a dark lager. Uh, dark check, dark check lager. Good to have in winter. You can still have a couple sit by the fire. Feels nice. Um, and it's.
Speaker 2:It's a beer that I've had neighbors and people who try to stay on top of the stuff that I'm brewing, that try everything I make. Yeah, and they said this is one of the top ones that they love and I, and it's one that I really like. It's. It's good. It doesn't have anything different or crazy going. It's definitely more traditional style. I don't have anything going too crazy with it besides using the eastern washington grown grain, which I think really puts the different aspect on my beers.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what about March? You'll have your Irish.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, I'll be doing that. I have a couple. Like I said, I'm going to start and do that Archangel series again.
Speaker 1:That'll be in the spring Spring summer-ish End of spring, yeah, end of spring time.
Speaker 2:So I would say between the dark lager and the Irish beer I have there's two beers I want to brew, but mostly for culminating on gathering together these new hops that I've come in contact with the industry, okay, that not too many beers have been made out of them. So I'm gonna do basically a basic smash beer.
Speaker 2:So it's just gonna do a single grain and a single hop, but it's a brand new hop I've never used before. From from uh yakima valley hops the company but it's through a couple different farmers. Okay, there's uh over here in yakima valley is it?
Speaker 2:a secret. No, um, so one of them is going to be with. I think some breweries have used it already. I think even weedheads made some with uh crush hop called crush. It was an hbc hop. Hbc is the hop breeding, hop breeding, cumulative, and that's how they do. They come up with new hops and they start out as numbers and it's like a 10-year process to get a pop with a number, to have a name okay. So it's a huge thing and these it's really cool to see these new uh hops come into play. Um, crush has been. There's been breweries.
Speaker 2:I've done it. I want to just kind of do it on it on its own, okay, see how it tastes fully on its own palate, kind of do a couple different editions of it within that beer and then test it out. So I'm probably going to do those, but they're I'm going to do like slightly smaller batches just to kind of do them really quick, okay, and so I can do maybe two at once so I can have two base the same base beers and just change out the hops. Which is a little bit different than the Archangels, because the Archangels is is an actual grain bill and it has much more than just one type of grain. This doing a smash beer kind of makes it so I can have the profile of these hops and kind of figure out where they would mix in. Good Cause doing that, these hops might come back up again in the Archangel series on how I blend these hops together. So one's yeah the Crush. And then there's a new hop called Anchovy.
Speaker 1:Does it smell?
Speaker 2:No, then why Anchovy? Why are they making it?
Speaker 1:like it's a bud from marijuana.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why are?
Speaker 1:they doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a whole thing behind that and I know the guy who named it has a whole thing. Uh, I I can't remember the whole story, but it's the guy who named it has some reason behind it. But it's supposed to come out like jolly rancher hard candy. That's what the hop is supposed to give, that sweet, hard candy.
Speaker 1:Why are they doing that? It's almost like a strain of marijuana, I know well, it's a sister.
Speaker 2:It's a sister, sister plant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but still I know yeah it's funny are you gonna mess around with the idaho hops? Oh, any more of those or no?
Speaker 2:there are a couple, but I'm not sure. I don't have any on my my list currently, but I know there's always some that come. I mean, I always like I usually have idaho seven in, yeah, and ip it's so idaho seven is in one of my stage ipas that idaho seven is is a hop that I usually try to always have.
Speaker 1:So when the arch angle, arch angle angels come back out. Yep, will you have more of that this year than last year?
Speaker 2:um, probably not.
Speaker 1:I'll probably still uh no wait, that's during hockey season. We had a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the end. Not enough of it. Yes, exactly yeah, right during playoffs. So yes, so, what.
Speaker 1:I'm saying or asking is can you please have more of that?
Speaker 2:So I think last year I actually did only do 10-gallon batches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't enough.
Speaker 2:So this year I will make a half barrel of each. Okay, so this year I will make a half barrel of each, and one whole keg of each will be canned off right away. So then I have cans set up.
Speaker 1:I can't believe you're doing cans dude. Yeah, canning A lot of people stay away from cans because of the price, but here you are canning away.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I know bottles. Bottles is just it'll make it's like 10 times more work to bottle. It's so easy to can. I was lucky enough to be gifted the canner that I got my my single canner when I originally got it from someone who is invested into me and they say if this helps you and gets me more beer, my way yeah I'll get that for you.
Speaker 2:So that was that was a good thing to come along on my way. And yeah, it's the same kind of canners that they have at a brewery where it's just a single canner. But I can do the 12 ounce cans or the 16 ounce okay, and I know I like doing the 16 ounce cans. The 12 ounce cans I can do for, uh, competitions okay so I usually send the smaller cans to competitions. They don't need as big of a can for their judging.
Speaker 1:And for the next competition, your tree beer and Imperial will be gone.
Speaker 2:right, let's see All right, maybe next year because, like I said, I don't have any to turn around to a competition right now. I got you, we'll see.
Speaker 1:But you always have a competition somewhere, someplace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you tell me about. But you always have a competition somewhere, someplace, yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been out of it and you tell me about it and I'm like dude what For real?
Speaker 2:There's just a posting on the national, the USA Home Brewers website and you can check every single state that's having a competition and you can just route them their way, get them all on their labels and everything like that. It's all blank cans but you have a write-in label to put on it.
Speaker 1:So are you going to the uh winter hop fest?
Speaker 2:Hmm, I am not.
Speaker 1:Last year you went to the wall, of wall right, or did not know, okay.
Speaker 2:But this year I might, okay, I might. I don't know if I'm going to go to the one in Ellensburg or the one in Walla Walla this year.
Speaker 1:I think it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're on the same day. Yeah, yeah, I don't know why they did that.
Speaker 1:I think it's because of the Walla Walla beer parlor guy. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, I am much. I mean, I like those events. Those are fun, but I can have a lot more fun at home too.
Speaker 1:I've had a lot of crap beer there too, yeah.
Speaker 2:I can be at home and I can invite six people over and I said each bring your own pack, and then we can have our own little thing, have your own winter fest. Open up the garage we can have a TV on. There's hockey going, so we'll have the hockey games on. That's kind of my, I my. I mean, yeah, big events are fun and all, but I'm much more comfortable doing tastings on my own and things like that how are the blackhawks speaking of hockey?
Speaker 1:how are they doing?
Speaker 2:yeah, probably the same as any other year oh gosh even with badar, they're just yeah, they're not. They're not cutting it as much, but I think they're doing better than last year yeah, but that's not saying much how's little miss marquess? Doing. She's doing great. She's loving her. This is her. She's been doing hockey for a year now, but this is her first season on a team. We go to our first tournament next weekend in Lewiston.
Speaker 1:Really, we're already getting on the tournament scene. You talk about your home brewing system. I know Dude hockey is the most expensive sport.
Speaker 2:Traveling.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:How fun Daddy and Mom.
Speaker 1:And it started. Yes, oh, my gosh. So we talked about a lot of lot of things, great reviews, rave reviews on your beer, not just from me, but others um not just jesse too. Shout out to jesse and your neighbors and everything else we've talked about moving on up. Do you ever feel like you'll lose your this, the love of the game, the hobby. Do you ever think that?
Speaker 2:I mean there's always a possibility for something. Um, I'm in the mindset of, if I get called in different directions to do something else, I'll. I kind of do that. Like I said, uh, faith is pretty prominent in me and if something gets called for me in that way to do something different or to stop what I'm doing and focus elsewhere. I don't know if brewery and brewing will ever totally go away, but I could see if time came to it, to where I couldn't do as much. It's not like it would tear me apart. I sort of I have a mindset of I need to do what's right, I need to do everything that's here. The brewing is extra and that's what. It's kind of fun, it's my fun, I like doing it and it's good, people like it. So I'm going to keep doing it until something else happens. I'm just going to kind of keep going with the flow on that way.
Speaker 1:What if people don't like it? Then I want to hear about it, because I want to know what's wrong. I'm just going to kind of keep going with the flow on that way. What if people don't like it? What if?
Speaker 2:Then I want to hear about it because I want to know what's wrong. I want to know if they I don't want to just hear I mean. That's why I think, like I say, I keep saying it's funny when I hear those comments because none of those people have ever tasted it.
Speaker 2:I don't say something that's bad before I've even tasted it. I'll say it. I'll hear what other people have tasted and say, yeah, it's bad. I'll still want to taste it on my own, though, because everyone's palate's different. I know there's yeah, it's social media. Whenever you get into that that two million mark. Yeah, I guess once you get to that, I guess when you get into that you just get all the randos.
Speaker 2:And it get all the randos and it's all the you check on, you check who they are and it's like people with no followers or following nothing, so they're just there to do that. Whatever russian bots yeah, whatever they, they can do whatever they want. But I'm in the aspect of mindset. I love hearing what people have to say about it. I like people being critical of that. I want to know if what they think would make it better. If it's, if they say something and I don't think that's what would make it better, I'll still take into account. Yeah, but maybe I won't change it. Still, in the end, it's my beer and what I wanted to taste will that change, and that's everyone, everyone's different right.
Speaker 1:Will that change whether or not you continue or not?
Speaker 2:no, no no, uh I, I will still continue you'll be that homebrew.
Speaker 1:That just does it.
Speaker 2:It's also, who knows what will happen in this world in the next years? Uh, having brewing knowledge and ways to make alcohol is probably a pretty good thing to know, so I think yeah, yeah that could be everyone's always gonna want it back the day it was safer than drinking water, you know? Yeah, I mean that was the whole reason behind it yeah. But I know there's a lot in the industry right now on people going NA on alcoholic beers.
Speaker 1:It's a huge thing.
Speaker 2:And people doing smaller. There's even a thing of like making smaller cans, like people who were making 16 ounce cans are now doing 12 ounce cans because, uh, and at least for canning they could almost sell it for the same but there's not having to give as much out. But then they're also saying they're also putting the spin on it. It's like, well, you're not drinking a pint, so you're drinking a 12 ounce. Cancer, the 16 ounce, and you're drinking 12 ounce cans of the 16 ounce and you're like, oh, the healthier way. I was like a lot of things are going health nut and people are wanting to non-alcoholic A lot of people not drinking as much alcohol. I know there was a I think there was some sort of tally that went out there or something like that on asking people who are like in their 20 to 25 year olds.
Speaker 1:I don't think are drinking as much. They're too busy doing fentanyl or doing whatever heroin dude yeah, doing stuff that's worse but, there's a lot more people looking for alternative yeah uh, alternative ways to enjoy.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's the place here in town, what's that kindred spirits here that's an entire non-alcoholic bar oh really yeah, that's over there off g way, I think. But that's cool and they've been around for the past. I don't. I don't know how long they've been open a year or two and so bar like hey, let's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they make soda pop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's not just soda, but it's yeah, I mean they they have. Yeah, it's not just soda, but it's yeah, I mean they have like the non-alcoholic beers. And so it's still a process and it's still an art in my mind. So I don't have anything against the non-alcoholic stuff.
Speaker 1:But if it doesn't taste good, I'm still yeah.
Speaker 2:If it tastes good, then I'll be.
Speaker 1:I don't have anything against it gonna drink beer for the flavor, drink beer for the plus. I'm just saying I want to buzz. You know, I got a buddy that drinks nas and I smell.
Speaker 2:It smells just like mine, but it's just like yeah, oh yeah that, that, that extra feel that you get out of a beer after a hard work week. Yeah, I gotcha, I'm not. I'm not one to try to go too crazy. I mean, yeah, there's some events and occasions that happens at but, I try not to make. I try to respect it. I respect the craft, I respect everything that comes of it. It's a gift. I don't see it as something that's just there to get me trashed.
Speaker 1:That's not that just there to get me trashed. That's not. That's not how I am. I got you, I got you, but everything is good trash.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. But there is that. You take that I mean the same with it. You have have a beer at the end of the week and or a beer or two, and that's that's what it truly does. Oh yeah, feelings that I have after a hard working week because I try not to drink during the work week.
Speaker 1:Just so much going on during work week I don't have anything to slow me down, really, so yeah um, for me it's, it's a good relaxation that kind of takes just it just takes the edge off yeah, and your uh promotion of other beers in the weekend. I like that, yeah, like how you do that, oh yeah, it's like a dessert beer or or dinner and or whatever evening pairing pairings. Yeah, yeah, dude, try to pair it up. I mean, like I said, that's yeah, that's all comes back from that wine industry yeah that's pretty cool aspect of me.
Speaker 2:I like that, and there's a lot of people that, yeah, they don't really care where the beer comes from, but that's kind of where I like to push. And there's people that like, oh, I never really thought of it, yeah and then where's this? Beer, what farmer?
Speaker 1:then when I see the pairing and I see the uh alcohol content, I'm like bro, how are you doing? I'm like oh, it's a thursday, never mind yeah, probably off friday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't work fridays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just like oh my god, there's no way. And then there's some that I'm like dude, I got trashed on that one. I can't even stand the smell of it, and I smell it as I'm reading it off your Instagram post yeah.
Speaker 2:The social media has been a really good way for me to just kind of track everything as well. That's originally what I turned instagram into was for me to just track everything and kind of be able to look back on the scene. But then a lot of people started liking it and I'm like I'm just a just a home brewer. Still, people always ask oh, where do I get this, where do I get this, how can we? I was like and they're like oh well, that's really cool. You're doing all this really cool stuff as a small little home brewer, but as a home brewer it's a pretty big scale for me for what I'm doing, so it's it's fun, sure you've inspired a lot and in the yeah, not the madness, drunkenness but the art
Speaker 1:yeah, art of home brewing not what I was talking about of just getting smashed or you know, back in the days when it was just a shoots and rogue and then homebrew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's turned out good and, yeah, there's been people that have made recipes of mine and they've tried to make it out, make it on their own, and so that's really fun for me to see. I like seeing other people wanting to try something that I've created, do a lot of people go through you for startup?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a couple. I've had a lot of people who are brand new brewers and same with our club. I've had a couple of people that are just starting out, that want to come by and just see my brew day and I'm like, well, this has been a lot of finessing and a lot of years they've gotten to this to make it this smooth.
Speaker 2:So don't think that you're going to come and watch me and this is how it's going to be for you when you go home and do it. But you'll kind of understand the process. So, like I say, I allow whoever wants to come by on a brew day If they know that I'm brewing. Yeah, come on over, hang out. It's usually a fun hangout.
Speaker 1:It's not too crazy? Yeah, it is, especially if Jesse and the gang show up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, neighbors show up, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to make sure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good thing I have my timer on my brew setup, or else I might get distracted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. So when will you have a nitro?
Speaker 2:It's always been a thought, because I've honestly wanted to make the imperial automail nitro please do, or at least have a keg of it. That's nitro please do because I thought that would be cool. Um yeah, I don't have. I haven't really gone into that direction of changing anything in that way. Uh, I know nitro can be kind of finicky to deal with also.
Speaker 1:Certain places around here can do nitro, so can you yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So can you.
Speaker 2:I know I can figure it out, don't worry, all right.
Speaker 1:But the Imperial needs to be in on that yeah, I would say so too, especially if it's almost 10. Yeah, let me know. So good year coming up.
Speaker 2:It's looking good. Yeah, right, I've got on. My recipe lists are all coming good. Um, I haven't set out. I try to plan as much as I can for the year because I like to buy all my stuff at once. It just it's always cheaper to buy everything at once. Yeah and I. They usually have a good sale at the end of the year for hops and everything like that. But, um, I am going to try.
Speaker 2:I have made a scotch ale before. That was one of my first and I've never read and I never brought it back, probably because I don't think it was that good but I would have to retry it. But I think if I retry it now I might be able to figure it out. Okay, I am going to try something different, or I'm bringing back a recipe from the dead. That kind of fell out on me. I tried it once and it was good. I think I just needed to add more hops because it was. It was very watery in the aspect, because the beer that I'm trying to make is 100 calorie beer oh, okay uh, so it's like an ultra but that's 90 right, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, but, and so I just called yeah. So it's trying to make a hundred calorie beer. That basically has a lot of hot flavor, though, but I think I was worried about adding too much, because it's only going to be 4% Not bad, so it's really low. That's something I wanted to make in the summer, so that's a new thing I'm kind of trying to redo, but there's a way Like an all day supper drinker yeah.
Speaker 2:But when you're going that low you have a heart like, like I said, last time I made it was just too watery. But there's ways you can do that by adding body to it without adding caloric uh you can use monk fruit monk fruit sugar and so that won't ferment.
Speaker 2:So it's a way to brew the beer and you can back, you can kind of bring that up to where it kind of brings some body to it. It wouldn't just sweeten it, but it it would. Yeah, but sometimes that monk fruit stuff can put a weird tinge on flavors on whenever you get those zero cal caloric sugars and something. It kind of be different. What made you want to do that?
Speaker 1:um, since all the craft beers are hefty. But here you are trying to go.
Speaker 2:A little bit lighter. Yeah, well, there's been some. Like I said, there's people that are trying to make better health decisions. I guess people can say with their drinking, and this is something that maybe someone will be more interested if they see. This is something that maybe someone will be more interested if they see. So I know there's, there's people that I talked to like, oh, I usually I won't, I won't touch anything over six percent or anything under, or I only have light beers.
Speaker 2:I wanted to get. That's blasphemy. I want, yeah, I wanted to have people that are the coors light drinkers, are the miller light drinkers or whatever, yeah, rainier drinkers, which it's great. I hey, I like, I like a good rain, I like a good rainier and a good, uh, miller, but at its own time. Um, for me it's, yeah, bringing that craft scene to that, to that level where you get, where you can get nice hot flavors and without it just being bitter and without just doing that, but then also saying, hey, it's only 100 calories and you can, you can go to a festival, you could go, you could bring, you could bring a growler, you could drink the whole growler and you'll still be. You'd probably be fine yeah, what?
Speaker 1:what about sours?
Speaker 2:no, I haven't really different uh, purely because when I have a sour, I usually only want a taster. Yeah, I can't drink an entire pint usually.
Speaker 1:You haven't had the right one, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I like wild ales, I like all the stuff from Frame, I like all their wild stuff. But, like I said, I have to share a bottle with someone whenever I get one. I can't drink the whole thing, and it's usually I have to drink that last because then my palate's just ruined for drinking anything else.
Speaker 1:What about last one man, Last question, your style, your beer, that kind of thing. What about barrel age man?
Speaker 2:I've actually had some contact with this new small barrel company. I think they're man. Where are they they out of? They're out of somewhere in oregon I forgot somewhere portland area, outside outskirts or something where they're making these small scale barrels that you can change out the staves on the inside, but it's its own container. It's its own like mini barrel, but you can change out staves and stuff in it okay and so I've.
Speaker 2:I've reached out to them and they said that, uh, it's something that they, if I put something out for them or like, try to use their product and I would get like a discount to get one. Okay, but it, that is something I've been interested in and wanting to do um with. Um, I, if I do ever any wood and I do add some wood into the all souls pump the imperial automail, but that's added in when I'm doing the vanilla beans and bourbon. That's all kind of its own little extract that I make.
Speaker 2:But that's just with some wood chips, but with this way doing some barrel-age stuff, I've definitely wanted to do Okay. And there's Solar Spirits here in town. They have some extra bourbon barrels. They have some extra small stuff that they do some stuff on. So they usually do a sale. They usually sell their stuff off every like once a year or something like that. So I might want to go in and get a okay, a small barrel of that too and then add I'd have, honestly, my the imperial automail would be great to do.
Speaker 1:I was gonna ask you what beer would you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would probably be that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean for my recipe.
Speaker 2:but it's either that or I can make a new one. Okay, In barrel age something.
Speaker 1:And if you had to pick a barrel, what kind of barrel would it be? Like a Chardonnay barrel.
Speaker 2:Like would you try that Go lighter? Yeah, I mean I would. I think I'd want to do a whiskey barrel for a dark, for a dark beer, okay, but if I was to do a lighter beer, yeah, I think I would. It's either that, or I do a rosé barrel, or if they use a rosé.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Do something off that. I mean, I know sometimes rosés around here. Some are just uh, in stainless that they don't add rosé to barrels sometimes. But there's plenty of wineries that do and I could probably find one. But usually with that stuff it's all big I'd have to get, and those full-size barrels are 60 gallons.
Speaker 1:Yes, I've seen them. Tanium showed me and he had like 60 of them. I know he's all on the side of his house, I'm like oh my God, you need a lot of product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I always thought of doing that on brewing a beer and just keep brewing, batch after batch after batch. Yeah, trying to fill I'd have to do. I guess I'd only have to do like three batches to get it to the level. I don't know if I'd ferment in the barrel and see how that goes, because you can ferment in the barrel and that'd be kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Since you're canning, since you know things are busting a bit, yeah, the canning is good. When do you think you'll be able to sell legit? Sell your brews, but be picky on putting them out until you know it's high in demand.
Speaker 2:It's either that, like I said, if something comes up to where I get a situation where there's a place that wants to contract me to brew stuff for them on for like a house beer, or like a restaurant that wants, yeah, house beer, but they have a location where I can go and do that, and so maybe I can use that location to make some one-offs on my own and then just kind of sell that my own. But main thing is is just um, I know I have recipes already that'd be ready to go, so it's kind of whenever that facility shows up, okay, or when I get a location where I can have everything approved to be able to do that, yeah, I don't, I won't ever have it approved to do it at my house well, tier metery uses that.
Speaker 1:Uh, that one winery yeah, right these long ship, yeah long ship yeah, what's yeah?
Speaker 2:I just have to go to a brewery that has extra time.
Speaker 1:I guess. Yeah, I'm just saying man. Well, you know.
Speaker 2:I know that's the craze. That's the number one question I get asked when is this going to happen? When is this like? I'm just keeping people on their toes, I guess.
Speaker 1:Future is looking bright.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dude. You got to wear shades, bro, because I just can't wait until you pop off. I'm a huge fan of yours. You know that this is your second time on here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great beer Can't drink right now. I think I'm going to be very selective when I can get back to drinking, but I'm not in a hurry. But I'll have one or two here and there, but definitely when it's playoff season, playoff hockey season and the arch angels back, I'll make an exception, maybe three to four. But, dude, I'm a huge fan. I know a lot of people are a huge fan of yours. I think you know you're too humble and um, which is good, but it also can be bad, because we see what you're capable of doing. I know you're, you can see it too, but you just want to stay back and make sure you know play safe.
Speaker 2:When it does happen, I want it to be good. I don't want to yeah, I don't want to show up at a place and have all these things go wrong and yeah and be a bad name right off the bat and like all this hype, and then it's like, oh, that was a letdown no, no, I think that's when you're getting in your own way probably but, dude, I'm excited for you, man, I'm excited for what's come.
Speaker 1:Love your beers, always will love your beers, and I will tell you which ones are horrible and not too many. Not a big red lager fan or Red L, and you know that.
Speaker 2:But, dude, any other beer.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is personal, but man just curious, how did this episode go? Good yeah, Went as planned, if that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I assumed yeah coming here Because you were like what are we going to talk about? Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think it just went great yeah.
Speaker 2:Talking about this is great. I always like sharing the little aspects of all the beers I do. Giving a little bit more info, yeah, but, like I said, if people ever want more info, they can reach out to me on my instagram and your instagram is it's at chainsaw brewing.
Speaker 1:Okay, and it will be in the the description. Yeah, anything else?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's a if you want to see some cool brewing videos I try to make especially keep those going and I kind of show off my process on everything my canning setup I people ask questions oh how do you do this? It's like not necessarily doing instructional videos, but just showing my process. Not, I'm not doing step-by-steps for people, but the video is showing that. I'm not on my videos talking, it's all pure videos with music.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, and it shows on the tree beer.
Speaker 2:You know that yeah, that's hitting two million plus.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. It's crazy, but that's good man have you? Have you thought about um getting paid through social media now?
Speaker 2:I had lots of questions, lots of people that I was like, honestly, I guess you don't necessarily get paid by Instagram. You'd have to be. You have to do stuff for, like other companies. So if there's companies that want to do stuff for me, I guess reach out, but I'm not looking into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Has any companies hit you up? Uh-uh, oh, you got to be Okay. Yeah, I think you need to start selling yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got to be.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I think you need to start selling yourself. Yeah, that's funny, but yeah, we got that. Who knows, with all the products of the companies that I use for my beers, who knows they might want to do some stuff for them? I know all the grain, the grain farmers and the maltsters and the hop guys I'm all really good contacts with. They always hook me up good. I guess you could say it's through that. That's just a personal relationship I have with them.
Speaker 1:I like how we upgraded from your brewery to the teacup studio. The third time's a charm. We'll end up doing something eventually. You know coming up down the road, but dude, until next time Until next time Thank you much.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure having you Guys hit them up. Chainsaw Brewing. If you guys don't know who he is, you're going to find out real soon. You're probably living under a rock if you haven't. But guys, reach out to him. It's good brew, good brew, great brew and uh, yeah, until next time, guys. We'll see you next time.