When you think about making a transition from an athlete to a hiker, you just can't help but wonder about the journey it entails. This episode gives a glimpse into the adventurous life of our guest, John Millet, an accomplished trail runner. We journey through his athletic evolution, his experiences with trail running, triathlons, and his exciting transition into mountain climbing. Jon’s decision to undergo surgery to alleviate constant pain adds an unexpected poignant turn to his tale.
The episode doesn't shy away from detailing Jon’s challenging experiences, and the personal battles he faced while running trails and exploring mountainous terrains. He shares resilience when confronted with physical setbacks, reaffirming the importance of determination and perseverance.
Not all is gritty and grim, though. The episode explores the lighter side of life as well. This episode is a lively, adventurous, and inspiring blend of resilience, camaraderie, and the sheer love for the great outdoors.
Jon Millet
Instagram:
@jonmillet
https://instagram.com/jonmillet?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Shoutout to:
Jon Millet
Caroline Millet
The Millet Family
Dan the Man
@bmi32ultra_runner
https://instagram.com/bmi32ultra_runner?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Chainsaw Brewing Co.
Carol Hansen
Alter Ego Ambassador: https://alteregorunning.com/
Miles & Mountains Promo Code: MMyr2
When you think about making a transition from an athlete to a hiker, you just can't help but wonder about the journey it entails. This episode gives a glimpse into the adventurous life of our guest, John Millet, an accomplished trail runner. We journey through his athletic evolution, his experiences with trail running, triathlons, and his exciting transition into mountain climbing. Jon’s decision to undergo surgery to alleviate constant pain adds an unexpected poignant turn to his tale.
The episode doesn't shy away from detailing Jon’s challenging experiences, and the personal battles he faced while running trails and exploring mountainous terrains. He shares resilience when confronted with physical setbacks, reaffirming the importance of determination and perseverance.
Not all is gritty and grim, though. The episode explores the lighter side of life as well. This episode is a lively, adventurous, and inspiring blend of resilience, camaraderie, and the sheer love for the great outdoors.
Jon Millet
Instagram:
@jonmillet
https://instagram.com/jonmillet?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Shoutout to:
Jon Millet
Caroline Millet
The Millet Family
Dan the Man
@bmi32ultra_runner
https://instagram.com/bmi32ultra_runner?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Chainsaw Brewing Co.
Carol Hansen
Alter Ego Ambassador: https://alteregorunning.com/
Miles & Mountains Promo Code: MMyr2
John Miller. How are you man?
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on tonight.
Speaker 1:It's about time. I've been wanting to get you on for so long now, and now that I had Dan on a couple times, a few times, and we had 205 chop up to celebrate 200. Did you listen to that episode?
Speaker 2:Not the newest one.
Speaker 1:No well, you're not missing much. It was pretty funny to hear some feedback on it. They're like hey, nick, yeah, there's some things that you don't normally say and don't normally talk about. But there was something up I was like yeah, we've been drinking, we've been drinking, and then what is it? Kobe? Kobe's ex-wife was like yeah, you were saying all sorts of things and then I found out that you were slurring some words and this is at the lunchroom.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm all like, good thing there's some kids around and I'm like gosh, and when you started leading into asking me about 200, 205, I thought you were going back to our previous, what we led into with the Spin, the Clydesdale group 9, 9, 9, 9, 205.
Speaker 1:I think this will be either 209 or 210. It just depends. I'm sitting on a couple and, yeah, it's just been a little rough. It's been not lazy, just been too much to just sit up here in my own thoughts and listen to episodes, especially when they're drunk. Nick and Dan Not Dan so much, but Nick, well you've got to have a little of that.
Speaker 2:sometimes I had the tension. Yeah, I was laughing. Keep things rolling.
Speaker 1:I was laughing my butt off. I was just like, oh my God, what were we thinking? Yup, and who's Pecker is bigger than the other, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Burritos, the Burritos, the Burritos that too. But it was basically talking about the egos and the mountaineering segment of the world, or any segment that you are true, formed in. You always have those one-uppers, and that's what we were talking about. The bigger penis, you had the bigger one. Yeah, I did it at midtime and I did it at nap time. Yeah, and I'm always suspect on that man. I just stay away from people like that, and that's what we were talking about. And then, as we're talking about it, I'm slurring a little bit. Yeah, good times, good times, but it wasn't too embarrassing, not yet.
Speaker 2:But All right, we won't try to embarrass you tonight, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:John, john, john John. There's this little French Fropotator guy in here, dan the man. Yeah, he had to be here because, well, he mentioned you in the first episode. He talked about you, first episode, he was on and well, you're on here I am.
Speaker 2:That's actually my introduction to your show, also because I had people I think Carol Hansen came to me and said have you listened to the podcast? Dan talked about you. Yeah, yeah, that gave me the impetus to turn it on and then have a listen. I think it took about an hour and a half until we got to that part, but I finally heard it. But yeah, I like Dan's a good guy and a good training partner and I had to hear what he had to say about me.
Speaker 3:So that's right. I mean, it was all going to be good because I didn't want you to have to. You know, catch me out back, Catch me outside, catch you outside.
Speaker 1:So that beer that I opened, how do you guys like it, man, do you guys like it?
Speaker 2:Not bad. I love the can, the art.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a local guy, the battle of Jericho.
Speaker 2:I haven't. I don't think I've had it before.
Speaker 1:I've had them on the podcast. It was I think it was the last beer podcast I did and nah man, he's a good buddy of mine, good friend heck of a coach and hockey fan and family in the family too. Hockey runs in his family. But nah man, he he he bruised right out of his garage and it's one of the best.
Speaker 2:Where do they sell it?
Speaker 3:Chainsaw room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:I hit him up on my knee like several times and it was like dude, I want to buy some of your beer. And it's like I'm almost like where's that? He's like I'm running out of my house. It was like on a, like a need to know or you know basis, where he's at, and I'm like God man, I want some of this.
Speaker 1:I just noticed that.
Speaker 3:That is awesome. Yeah, this is this is good, and we're deep, we're deep, pick it up.
Speaker 1:Right outside of his garage. You have to you have to buy. Buy merch, so you get the beer. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's how it goes.
Speaker 3:No, no, I didn't just see that.
Speaker 1:This is fresh hop. He normally man his, his, his pine IPA straight out of a pine tree and then he does the whole fermentation and or follow through or whatever flow through pumpkin during Halloween, Thanksgiving, and I'm waiting for that. I paid for more merch so I can get a a four pack of that. So but yeah, shout out to chainsaw brewing.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Check out your tin tackers and I see the one for them right there. Oh yeah, I collect these also and I'm seeing some ones I need to get. But yeah, I'd be in on buying a tin tacker if it helps me get some yeah, get some beer.
Speaker 1:The pumpkin one is a nine pointer and man, it's good, it's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I messaged him on Instagram. I messaged him and was like, doing my ideas, like you should do, like a Husky Husk of Arna Hazy, like I can't remember the size I gave him Like a 585, like 5.85. Like giving an idea. And yeah, he liked to comment and, like I said, I kept reaching out like hey man, I'd love to try some of your beer, cause I heard him on, I listened to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very nice guy. Yeah, absolutely so very, very Catholic too. He does a lot of the you know Catholic brewing community out there. And yeah, he's, he's, he's killing it, he's killing it. It's only a matter of time when he says, hey, it's time to take a step up and get a little further. Yeah, but yeah, he's, he's. He's the man in his bruise.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Just like you are the man on the trail. Forget glory days, dude. I'm just saying dude, we all get hurt. You know I've been dealing with you know some injuries and everything else, but you were dealing with an injury at Twilight, the 12 hour right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where this really started, so right now.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm dealing with a torn meniscus and it's not a really as far as torn meniscus go. It's not a real severe one, but it's enough that it's really bothering me. Yeah, and it's all started in the spring training for run with the goats, which was only about two weeks before run with the goats. It starts really bugging me. On a 20 miler I did out jump off Joe. I had to just run weekends only basically to make myself available for for that run with the goats run, which is one of my favorite things. You know it's a small event but all our best friends are out there and we're just having fun and it's more about the camaraderie than than racing. Right Made it through. I can't remember how long it took me, it was like 10 hours. I think I was really hoping to get my our Clydesdale picture with Dan on that day and I think we are. Just our loops were off sync and we didn't quite get it, but it did affect. I think we had a week off or two weeks before Twilight, only one to two weeks, and my original goal, of course, going to Twilight was not for doing an all 12 hours but to get a 50 K. Both times I've done it but didn't work out. It was the toughest 50 K, 20 miles in, I believe. No, that was the one the year I had 20 miles. This year it might have been less, but ever since then it's just been dealing with the knee. It gets paint. I try to take time off, it gets more painful.
Speaker 2:Finally, over the summer we had I went with runners of the sage to their trip to Ecuador. Yeah, lucky, and it was a really, really great time. But my knee was gradually getting worse going into that trip. I finally went and see the doctor get an X ray. There's calcification growing inside the meniscus which they they tell me they actually can't repair, and the really the gist of it is lose the high impact and I said well, here's the deal.
Speaker 2:The next week I have a trip to Ecuador. It's based off trail running and mountain climbing and everything like that. So end up taking a cortisone shot. Knee felt perfect. Yeah, went down on the trip, was able to do some big runs. Actually probably caught COVID halfway through and with about a third of the group and kind of derailed a lot of that. I didn't get to do the big mountain climb that we did up to a 16,000 foot peak. That's beautiful. I was home sick all that day. But long story short, coming back from that trip, I've that's been three, four months now and I've only run three days since then, just because the knee is gradually getting worse.
Speaker 2:So I I didn't make the decision, after an MRI, to get surgery which will be coming up right before Christmas, hopefully, hopefully. It's just a couple of weeks break, but it'll be something for me where it's kind of coming to that decision as being an old kind of identified as an ultra endurance athlete for the last 10 to 12 years, but it's time to make different decisions on what's right for my body. It'll be maybe more mountain climbing, more hiking stuff I spin bike, it's just a change in almost in self identity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we come to think of ourselves.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm a, I'm an ultra runner, I'm a iron man, you know that's what I was going to say, cause I I've heard that was you were doing the iron man thing, because I've asked people and I should just ask you. But I'm like, john, you're incredible and how you be able to push yourself like you do, and I mean identifying as acts we're not small guys and you're kicking ass out there on races and that I'm like how can I?
Speaker 3:how can I get to that level? You know, and I can't remember who I asked, but they said, yeah, man, he was in, you know, doing iron man than that. And I'm like man, he has a VO two max. It just must be ridiculous. But yeah, you inspire me a lot and you know, through segments on Strava out here just in our backyard, it's like in the weight class on Strava, it's like I'd get one and I see, oh, john's right there, or I'd get like I got it, and there's John Mellon, he's like above me, he has it, you know, and it's yeah, you're, you're an incredible athlete.
Speaker 2:You're probably getting me now on those, but yeah, it all started. I mean, I used to. I've been a big, big boy my whole life, right? My senior high school has about the same size and weight I am right now and I've got a lot bigger in my twenties. So for me and I would run here and there, but more like two, three miles, you know, just a few miles at a time, more into weightlifting.
Speaker 2:And then I think it was 2011, the first year that Badger Mountain Challenge came out on Brandon. A lot started that up. I signed up, wasn't I signed up for the 15k. Okay, I'll try this. I hadn't even really done much trail running and on my very first training run I went out to Badger and I think I did 11 miles and I thought, oh, I just ran farther than what this race is going to be. Maybe I should do the further ones. I emailed Brandon, said hey, can I bolt myself up to the 50k? And I think I'd done one half marathon road in my life before that and that's what kind of got the bug going for me. It's like I love being out on the trail and that's more of the challenge, just for me. It's not in races. It was never. I'm not racing you or the guy across from me. I'm just trying to get the best time I could and push myself, and that's what.
Speaker 2:After a couple years of doing this, I'm just trying to do a few ultra marathons, I mean mainly 50ks. I was taking spin classes at Golds and decided maybe I should get the shoes to clip in. Okay, now I got the shoes After a little bit of time. Hey, maybe I should buy a real bike to start riding with these shoes. And then I had some other friends that were getting involved in triathlons about the same time, in the early teens, you know, 2012, 2013. Did my first. I could barely swim. I didn't know I mean I could swim, but I think I remember someone calling me a Loch Ness monster because I would keep my head out of the water.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't put my face in.
Speaker 2:I was kind of doing a reimagined dog doggy paddle and I survived the sprint triathlon. But then you get that bug of okay, what can I do next? And getting out of the water, it's like okay, I'm never doing that again. But then within a couple of weeks, it's like okay, the bike. I made up some ground and I knew I was a strong runner. And after a bit it's like, okay, what can I try next? So that did lead into doing for bigger and bigger triathlons.
Speaker 2:I only got up to one one Ironman I did in Coeur d'Alene, 2016. And then, of course, that you know. I thought I was going to do more. But there's injuries. Of other injuries have happened Bike wrecks, broken collar bones Not in that frame of mind anymore, but still considered myself an ultra, ultra athlete and got the trail. Running is always what I love the most. Yeah, and just being out there with guys like you, guys who everyone loves it, and everyone is cheering for each other, supporting each other. It's not really a competitive thing. It's more about the company you're with and just challenging yourself to be better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Torminuscus man. So what are they? What are they going to do? They're going to clean it up. Can they clean it up with that calcification Like calcification won't get cleaned up, but that's most likely.
Speaker 2:I don't have like any big giant tears, it's a lot of small ones and it's probably from the calcification growing in there. So they're going to clean it up, but we don't know for sure how long it the relief will last. So I was hesitant on doing the surgery. But then a week or two after seeing the doctor, I had a. It started feeling worse and I just decided I needed to go for it. So for me for me, it's making a decision of you know, my high impact trail running triathlete days are probably over, because even if I get this cleaned up and it feels better, I want it to last as long as possible Right.
Speaker 2:So, it's making life changes. Can I do more hiking, more mountain climbing? And I know that's something both you guys are into, but it's new to me. I had not done mountain climbing before until I started dating Caroline a few years ago, and she was a mountain climber. She's all right, yeah. Good girl, but she really taught me the right way, got me into it slowly, you know, like three years ago.
Speaker 1:We did.
Speaker 2:South sister. The next summer did St Helens, this summer we did Adams.
Speaker 1:Adams yeah. I saw that Lucky thing. Sick invite, Sick invite John.
Speaker 2:I think I tried Sick invite but so I haven't done anything like that where I need more extensive gear or expertise. If I can push myself and I can basically hike in cold weather with some traction, I know we can get up. But I'm I'm interested you know things like that definitely going to explore more because that's the thing that'll challenge me to just do what I can do and be out there with good people and good friends.
Speaker 3:So I was going to say you guys are usually in the well, I was a lot too. I don't know if that's but the runner of the sage or whatever, because I'll be partly yeah, partly because of that.
Speaker 2:When we first started dating, it was one of our first dates was to go up to Joseph and did some hiking up there. And then then, yeah, chris, with runner of the sage, has property up there and so we go back for the hurricane Creek half marathon. Yeah, when we got married last summer, we ended up deciding to kind of correlate our wedding with with the hurricane Creek, because we knew we wanted to be in the mountains, we knew we wanted to be around friends and that was a that was a good way to do it, and so we go up that way quite a bit. We haven't been able to get up there since. This past Memorial Day we went up for the race, the other beautiful area with a lot of great mountain climbing that we're hoping to get up there and get some more.
Speaker 2:It takes a lot of time to go up there, man. Yeah, three hour drive each direction, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean once, but that that one. That last hour is hell, though, because it's just winding out. Yeah, it's beautiful down that canyon, oh my goodness, yeah, it just takes forever and ever, and it's just like I just want to get there. Then you're there. You're like, okay, now what? Oh, let's go to the steam distillery. You been there yet?
Speaker 2:Yes, we have. I got a tin tucker from there oh yeah, okay, see, they didn't sell them when.
Speaker 1:I was there, but uh, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a different small town, but, man, I love it. The mountains, it's like, uh, the Bavarian Alps, but in Oregon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of a. I think more and more people are getting out there. But it's beautiful place. It's out to me, away from everywhere, but more and more people are making it grow, making the land and the prices of land go up.
Speaker 3:Um, you know the it's far enough away that it's isolated, but people from you know the boys using Portland's people are discovering it as their playground, like Leavenworth is, for Seattle is what it seems like Something that with that said with COVID, um, that you know, talking to people down in the burned Oregon area, which that county has maybe 2000 people in there, but it's a big county and isolated they had so many people coming from like Portland and the Lama Valley area out there.
Speaker 3:It was like the sheriffs were getting called out there, you know, because there was a camp and everywhere, because they had nothing to do. They started exploring, and I think COVID had a lot to do with with pushing people to discover these places that were are hidden gems, you know, because they're well, so they're to do, you know, and so they're going out to. You know, and then Instagram too, I mean, everybody wants to get these shots of up in the mountains. That drives them, you know, to these places, and I'm with you, there's a lot of people discovering. You get a lot more foot traffic out there.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people. They also you know when, in their own hometown, they were like we're a mask right During COVID, right, but then they'll go to Eastern Oregon where there wasn't any like, it was lackadaisical, and they're like oh man, this is great, I need to come here more often, let's, let's continue to do it. Now. Mask mandates are done, you know, and people are just like okay, the hidden gems are no longer hidden.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of people were out exploring just to explore. But then also, I believe a lot of people figured out they could which I've never understood this but they can work, they don't have to actually go to work to have a job. Yeah, they figured out they could leave their expensive home there and buy cheap lands out here in the east side and kind of start ruining it for the rest of us, right, yeah, Well it's nothing to ruin it, but I want to say Evan.
Speaker 3:Holiday, that guy.
Speaker 1:I love him.
Speaker 3:He's always out doing his thing. But I've messaged him like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? He's like, oh, I'm out here. He finds a place where he could get, you know, some kind of service and he's literally still working out of his camper. But he'll be up at, like, andy's Prairie snow park or somewhere where he has service, but still be up in the mountains and doing, doing what he does to the has service.
Speaker 2:And. I'm like man living the dream. I said that's all the people I'm jealous, or? But it's people that, smarter than me, I guess you can figure out a career where you don't actually have to go anywhere to do it. I didn't figure that out, so I guess.
Speaker 3:I'm just bitter.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm the same way, hey so I had a 30% tear on my meniscus and, man, it was the best thing that I ever did was have that taken care of, just cleaned out and everything else. Does my knee hurt? Does it feel different than before? Absolutely. But man, I tell you what I don't wish that pain on anyone. I can only imagine what you're dealing with and do more power to going this long with that pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, it's not, it's your ideal with it but, and I hope it'll be better. But it's like once my knee is bent, like sitting in the car or sit. If I'm sitting, I'm keeping my legs straight right now in front of me, because if I haven't been, it feels more comfortable to sit this way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, once I do straighten it out, it hurts like hell for a few minutes. Or if I'm in the car for a while and then I get out, it's like limping for 10, 20 steps before it kind of loosens up. I mean, the last time I went running, about a month ago, I'd only been walking, decided I was walking my dog one morning and I live at the bottom of the hill, and I started walking up the hill and I just thought to myself I want to go, I don't want this tick forever. I don't remember usually walking or like one mile just before school starts or before I have to get ready to go to work and I decided I want to go farther than a mile, but I don't want it to take 40 minutes. So I'm just going to try and run.
Speaker 2:So, I started running up the hill and no, it wasn't too bad. Okay, I did my two mile loop, wasn't too bad. I came back home bragging to go wake up, caroline guess what I actually ran? It felt fine. I think I can do this a few times a week If I just take it easy. Don't push the pace, just do two, three miles. But by that afternoon it was in so much pain I could barely walk and that was the day I decided I'm going to go ahead and go ahead with the surgery.
Speaker 1:It's the wheels though man Like it's the worst feeling ever because it's like you're bread and butter. You know doing everything. Yeah Wheels, don't mess with it. You know I had back surgery. I would rather have back surgery than torment is guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well for me to going through, or just becoming more of an ultra athlete, doing for longer miles, longer things as a bigger man, as a bigger athlete. I haven't ever experienced knee issues before.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of plantar fasciitis the first couple years. Altras came out and I started wearing those and I really firmly believe Altras helped me deal with plantar fasciitis. Just the zero drop, it's basically all I've been wearing for the most part in the last 11 years. I dealt with some Achilles issues here and there, where it would flare up for a summer or two but would always go away. So this is the first time I've ever had to deal with a knee, ever in my life, even as a high school athlete playing football and basketball. It's ankle stuff, never knees, shoulder injuries, but never anything with a knee. So that's a little more scary. It's something that it's not getting better. It could affect the rest of my life, but we'll see how things go?
Speaker 1:How are you taking it mentally? If you don't mind me asking man.
Speaker 2:I think mentally I'm taking it okay. It took a little while. This is accepting a change. For me it's more physical though, like we started talking about earlier. I mean, I've been bigger guy my whole life and getting into the ultra endurance stuff for me was also a way to fight my weight or a way to be able to be able to still enjoy food, enjoy a brew or a few brews, and not worry about that if I'm gonna go out and run 20 miles. It was easier for me to run 20 miles than to go on a diet. I guess you could say so that part of it. You know it's a little harder. I'll probably have to try to make some changes.
Speaker 2:I put on a little bit of weight, getting a little bit bigger than I was a year or two ago, but finding new things that can challenge myself and stay active, whether it's hiking or about a spin bike, trying to get more into doing that which I taught spin classes of golds for eight to ten years and I was doing the other stuff. It used to be a big part of my life. But since after COVID, I wasn't doing that, wasn't spinning as much, and so bought a bike in our house that made one of the rooms into a home gym. We're trying to get ways to stay more active without being out putting the miles on on my knee. Yeah, so far so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so far, so good. It's a little harder to you know, without doing the distance, it takes longer. That's the hard part. Yeah, okay, it takes. If you want to do two-mile walk, it still takes almost 40 minutes compared to going out and running four or five miles in that time. Back when you know, we'd run five miles in 40 minutes when I was in good shape.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember doing we were talking about it, you know just things that I was doing through COVID. I just remember, you know, somehow connecting with you different times, you know, and we ran the virtual 12-hour twilight.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah that was a really fun night.
Speaker 3:It was, and it was great we were out at. I can't even think what's. It's right there by your house, big cross cross country course yeah and yeah, and so I remember you know it's like my home turf, you introduced me to Christy.
Speaker 2:Garrison, that was one of the first nights I met her actually, too, that night.
Speaker 3:And I was like she came out there and she was just like she's a fast girl, man, fast woman, and you guys are out there just doing loops. I was doing loops, julie's husband was out there, john Carpenter, we were all out there and I remember and then I didn't see you and you guys got so tired of that which I get it, because I did 50k out there that night you guys went up the road and did something to get some more miles in. But yeah, it seemed like, yeah, we were like catching each other like through virtual runs, through COVID. You know, like I said, we were talking about before you came up here. You know, you came out and I was doing repeats on Jump Off Joe, just a steep part on the front face, and I put it out there and John showed up.
Speaker 3:He showed up and and I can't remember where I was at, I can't remember if it was the, I think it was the first time I was out there because there was two challenges I did and I think maybe it was the first one, just the most vertical. You get the spring energy put out there and you're like, hello, I'll come out there. And you did a few repeats and by the time you got to me I don't know how many I had done, but I was pretty tanked and you're just walking there with me and going up and down, up and down I think you ended up with that run almost like almost 3,000 feet of vertical you warmed up.
Speaker 3:I think you did a few repeats out there With me and then you're like and I said, hey, there's a segment here on Strava and I kind of told you where that and maybe you should go for it. And you're like, alright, I'll see. And I went down like I'm gonna go down a way that I'm gonna warm up, gave you an IPA and you were like, yeah, yeah, I'll take IPA, drink it. You went down a ways like a quarter mile down and then you came back up and then I was there just kind of getting fluids in and you're like, see it, and you went up there and you had a water bottle on top and you just blew up there and you end up getting the crown for that I remember at that time.
Speaker 3:I think it's been taken by Brian Anderson now, but yeah, you kicked ass up there. It's always for me to watch you out there when I'm running with you and no matter what it is, it's very inspiring because yeah, like I said, you have a BO2 max. It's phenomenal for your size. If it wasn't for the knee injury right now, you'd still be out there kicking ass, I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that day too and I I know we'd met you a few times hung out a few times, it runs, and, whether it was 5K and brew or wherever, had some beers. Yeah, you're right, though, we did Twilight. That was a really fun night. I didn't know much about the Twilight 12 hour except that I saw I think Jason posted it was canceled or they wanted to try and do a virtual one. They were trying to figure out a spot to do it and I live a mile from Big Cross so I threw out there. Hey, let's do Big Cross. I thought it would be a good place just to get miles in, but in a safe overnight, or it could be a safe environment where you're not worried about cars or going, like around the river where you got to go too far between light or water sources or that kind of thing. And we ended up doing it out there that night and that was that was a really fun night. Yeah, it was a Christy. I met her once or twice also before that, but we ended up running together and did a full 50k.
Speaker 2:But the part you're talking about leaving, yeah, because my house is closed, so I knew some other. My other normal runs I do, and yeah, we're like I gotta get out of here and do some miles just to break up the monotony of running loops around Big Cross and the pale Twilight. But I remember that day going out to Jump Off Joe though, where I saw you I think you just put it on Facebook or something said I'm gonna be out here doing some repeats all day, so come out and join me. And I remember saying you know, I told my wife that day I was like I want to, I'm gonna go out there and meet Dan drove up there. I'd never been to that part of the trail you were doing. I'd been just up the road, you know, to the to the towers and back, like like the everybody else, like the jump off Joe half marathon course basically, and the ridgeline you're talking about no, the front-face, the front-face, oh the front-face, yeah okay, yeah, so I got up there.
Speaker 2:I remember drive I think I drove all the way the top that day because then I was just trying to figure out where you're at and you would, I think, parked at the bottom we're coming from your side, from the Finley side and kind of figured my way over there and met up with you, did a yeah or giving me a beer I think you were getting your Taco Bell delivery about the time. About the time I decided to make that push up there for the, for the Strava segment, but I think there was only like three.
Speaker 3:Yes, I got the crown, but I think there was only like two or three of people who had ever done it before like it's opened up, like I think I opened that up because like there's, like I said, brian Anderson been out there and yeah it's, yeah it's.
Speaker 3:It's been dropped quite a bit now well, we saw the Clyde still correct exactly yeah, you know, I held for the longest time the, the segment on that downhill for the longest time, but I think Brian ended up getting it, but no it. Yeah, it's always fun when you're out and it's always enjoyable. I mean, we, you know, went out the paper street and met out and just happened to meet out there and your wife and out there. It's always good time with you and, like I said, you're super inspiring to me. It shocks me sometimes when I'm running. We're out there, like not now but before, like if I'm catching you, like we did a first of the year on McBee and you were out there and yeah, you've rocked it on yep, and I started running down. It was foggy and I started coming down. I'm running, like, like I said, I probably told that story on my, my podcast. I was running down there like John Miller. No way I'm catching John. Catching John, no.
Speaker 2:I'm passing it. Hey, john, you got the momentum going that's right downhill shit rolled down.
Speaker 3:I think that might.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that was the same day, might it be? Was Jason Christie out there that day? I think I was running alongside them and, like one of those, you get a patch of ice or I clipped my own ankle. I think I just clipped my own ankle with my foot or something like took one of those tumble and rolls heading down McBee road and pop back up and everyone going, oh shit, what just happened.
Speaker 3:John took a fall he's back up.
Speaker 2:I think it's shortly after that, when you caught up to us.
Speaker 3:I'm like what. There's no way I'm catching this guy because I mean, you are like I said you, you're an incredible athlete, john, I want you to know that I look up to you and and if I get a segment and I'm close to you, even if I not even got it, but I'm close, I'm like that's close enough well, thank you, but most of those times are probably from five or six years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, John.
Speaker 1:But like you know, those were the good days, but these are even greater days now. I mean the love. When you did South Sisters, right. When you did St Helen St Helens is a deceiving little bastard dude right. And then you did Adams. I mean Adams is no joke too. What was? Did you have a sense of accomplishment then? When you get out because that's the challenge, because you- were hurt.
Speaker 2:Then, too, my knee was already giving me issues. I wasn't sure, going into that, how it was gonna, how it was gonna be. I was able to do it and it was. It worked out fine. But, yes, that was a real challenge, a different type of challenge too, because that's just something new to me. But you both know, I know your experience, mountaineers, is just going up that face in the snow and the ice, that's, it's pretty much just your determination to get hurts, but you're gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other. Oh yeah, keep going up, stop and take a rest. Just keep going up, right, take a rest. And that is a new challenge, one that I am looking forward to. I'm a as far as mountaineering, I guess mine on my own worries, not worries, but just and getting into something new needing the gear, needing, yeah, that kind of you know, ropes or harnesses or carabiners, you know, like that kind of thing, I, if I can, I know my body can do it, but it's like trusting equipment.
Speaker 2:That's that'll be the next step for me, I think, and doing more than Mount Adams yeah, I got you, I got you, but I'm open to trying new things, for sure, and if you guys were gonna go somewhere someday, whether I would be up for joining you, or it's Caroline pushing me to new peaks, but we're all you know, we're. It's the new journey we can do together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at the same time there's a lot of mountains out there. That is not too technical. Enjoy those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get to the top and just that work. That's. That's the payoff, the work of once you get up there, yeah, and no one that you were able to do it. But even telling that story of the push and rest, push and rest that reminds me even of, for me, my top physical shape I was in was probably in 2016, when I did court of lane. But even just getting that marathon in, yeah, by the, I trained hard. I thought I knew what it was gonna take. My swim was right on what I thought the pace would be. My bike, which was actually even I'm more experienced at running the bike, was my strong point. I was about right where I thought I would be. But I started dealing with some cramping issues towards you and that was a really. That bike course had a lot of vert, yeah, quarter lane yeah, yeah, by course, I did the duathlon?
Speaker 2:okay, that course. Yeah, love those that high, that back highway 95 love the ups and downs and there was one point on the way back on the bike where we are coming downhill and I could tell my quad was I think it was my right side my quad or my hamstring one was something was about to cramp up and I remember just thinking, if we're on about mile, hundred yeah out of 112.
Speaker 2:I remember thinking if my quad cramps at the bottom of this hill, I'll never make it to the top game over. Because if I have to stop and rest, if I have to stop and like flex it out at the bottom of the hill and try and stretch, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get enough momentum going to go back up this last big climb. I survived that, but then heading into the marathon. So bike swimmer, right on pace with what I thought I'd be my list, start, run. Of course you're pumped.
Speaker 2:I'm two thirds away, done I'm just all I gotta do is the run yeah only 26.2 miles. I gota mile into it and I just kind of hit that proverbial wall. Yeah, and that marathon after that, after one mile was about the longest marathon.
Speaker 2:I would walk, for it was about 25 miles of walk, run, walk, run, walk run, but it was. It was like that just push yourself, I would run. At the way I remember it, I could run for a while and I felt my heart rate getting too high and I'm not, I don't really train with heart rate or yeah zones or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I always just train on how I feel. I just pushed myself to the most I feel like I did. Right then I I never got into the training. I didn't want to be too complicated. That made it not so fun for me. I didn't like having to think about it too much, I just wanted to go out and do well, on that run I felt my heart rate get high.
Speaker 2:I would start, I would walk and it was actually the walking that after a quarter mile or so I felt like my quads were gonna cramp up again. So then I would start running. So I'd run until I got my heart rate too high and then I would walk until I felt like my legs were gonna cramp and had about 25 miles of that. But it was still that just inner drive to push. I wasn't racing any of those people out there. Yeah, I'm sure most people out there feel the same way, except for those elite ones that are trying to qualify for Kona. But it was just more of push yourself to your limits and and overcome and get it done. Took was 13 hours, something like that, 12 and a half, I can't remember but.
Speaker 1:But you did but got it done, did it, you did it. And South sister, I think, is worse than St Helens. And to start off with South sister, I mean that mountains of B a brat, that is, yeah, a lot of the shale the shale that long, long climb.
Speaker 2:Remember that long climb of you slip each foot, each steps has lips a little bit, yeah, yeah, one step forward, two steps back, and the way we did it was we backpacked up to the lake, set up camp and then we saw okay, came back down and camped overnight at the lake.
Speaker 1:See okay, it's all or nothing for me, man. I have to do it all in one day, or it's go big or go home.
Speaker 3:But I think it's the biggest challenge with that, just for me, is altitude, just the. You know oxygen saturation and you come from sea level and you're going overnight to drive to Ben or Adams and just you know the oxygen deprivation you get and that's that's the biggest challenge for me. On these big mountains, like how much am I gonna be able to push my heart rate? Talk about heart rate and feel I mean I just recently got this, so I don't, I haven't really paid attention.
Speaker 2:One dance at this he is pointing to his watch. Everybody thanks thanks thanks, we're not on TV. I feel like we are, though. I feel like we are it's.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's just like on Adams. One time I had summoned Adam, soloed Adams, and I had a GoPro, I had the harness thing put over my head and I wanted to get just me cresting the summit and or getting to the summit. And I turned that on and I'm moving and you can see the little hut on top and you can see all the flags they put in on it. I'm like, okay, perfect, turn it on and I'm going. You can see in my, my shadow from the Sun. You see I'm moving. But it was like going and going, and going and going and it was like, okay, I'm gonna shut this off cuz I'm close, I get up. And then I finally turned it on and I'm like three minutes of a video at the second time well, come back. And it was like ten minutes of GoPro footage.
Speaker 3:You can see the, the hut and I'm moving, it just. It was just like I didn't realize it was that long. I just shut it off. It's just it just crazy that to me that the challenge for any of the mountains here is that coming from sea level and just you got to do it. When you get there from coming from sea level, you just got to do it. You can't just hang around for a couple days and you probably feel worse by the time you're doing it. But for me, being a bigger guy doing it's usually usually the altitude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I hear a couple things with.
Speaker 2:That is one. When we did Adams this summer I think it was mid July, it was yep, but I didn't see the hut because it was covered in snow, yeah, but I've seen a heavy snow.
Speaker 2:I've seen pictures of it though. Yeah, but piggybacking what you're saying about the altitude and just going for it. When we made that trip with Chris Ecuador this summer, we arrived, I believe, on a Saturday by the time we got in, keto's is about 9900 feet, just under 10,000 feet at the capital. Sunday morning at about 4 am, which our local time was more like two or one, whatever it was. With the time difference, we did a 15, no, 15k, 25k. I think it was 25k, 15 miles. I can't remember what you call it now, but it was up on an old dormant volcano when we actually were up at about 10,000 feet and then we dropped down into this valley of the volcano where there's like this old Civilization and there are people who are like living like they did hundreds of years ago.
Speaker 1:There's that's a cattle.
Speaker 2:Cattle and chicken pigs down there like people with these little farms, and then we ran around the crater, basically up and down into the cone back up, but it was like day one we're doing a race at 10,000 feet altitude and that was a really cool experience. But we but it was like that was our acclimatization because, yeah, three days later they said I missed it because I got real sick, but three days later they were doing a 16,000 foot mountain climb and so getting right into it date, like you're saying, just get right into it. That's your acclimatization. Yeah, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because your body is like, almost like.
Speaker 3:Don't know what to do at that point, to where, if you hang out there, wait a couple days in the parking lot at an altitude that you're gonna go up. You it's like just you got to shoot for it, unless you're gonna live there At the altitude. But I mean, it's just, yeah, and that's you got to do it. Yeah, it's just. I think that's just what you've been talking. That'd be an awesome, awesome Way or avenue you're going. Yeah, the climbing and stuff, and and both Nick and I, I think it'd be awesome, ready to come up, and we'll keep playing a trip I still trip something, you know, I think, since the three Clydesdale trip.
Speaker 1:Three, three, three amigos.
Speaker 3:But but no, I think just kind of. I think your wife is incredible. I think what she's doing, she's alright.
Speaker 3:I'm just gonna say that the climbing thing where she's getting you introduced and you start getting used to it. That I think, then the next thing to get just a little step there and you know Nick, you know he has his opinion on hood, but hood would definitely be that one to just start getting you like used to, like the little more vertical, like like Out of your comfort zone of these Adams and and St Helens, of something you just pretty much hike up to where you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah you could do a one Isaks and and all this, but I think I think hood would be the next one to get you kind of With with more steepness situation right and I see that and I would be in there with guys like you would be the right situation to do it.
Speaker 2:But I know like, yeah, caroline, she's done hood. She doesn't want to go back, but she's done Rainier, she's done Adams numerous times, she's done South sister numerous times, so that's St Helens. So I mean she knows a certain thing. But just like we're talking about I mean, we're all Getting a little older. You know I'm 48 now. She's a couple years older than me, but we're so, we're not going, we're not going for it look a day older than 35. I agree, I got lucky.
Speaker 1:She's alright.
Speaker 2:It's like I want to push myself, but not anything too extreme. But, yeah, take it slowly and that I think hood would be great. I know a lot of people who have done it. Yeah, I know she seems to have had a little bit of a bad experience there and doesn't want to go back to that one, even though she's experienced with other big mountains.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna speak for her, but I'll speak for myself. Hood is a different beast, because, number one, the weather. Number two, you got a lot of Portland ears that just all for themselves, and there's a lot of Portlanders, or whatever Portland ears, that are pricks man, that just all there just to do whatever they want, whatever they, however, they feel comfortable, and it's just balls to the wall and it just it ruins. It ruins the fun for the people who are out there just to experience it. Dude, and I'll tell you this, adams is more technical than hood hood. I think Hood is a lot easier. Death definitely.
Speaker 1:But man, the one thing that you got to get over I hate is the fumaroles man, the dude. Once you get to hell's kitchen, it is bad, it is just it's, it's. You're exhausted, right, and then all of a sudden, you just smell sulfur throughout the whole day Until you hit the shoe. And then, when you get down to the shoe, you're with. You know us being vertically Tall, unlike this hobbit looking dude, you know it. It takes a lot going down because you're on all fours going down. Besides, you know, billy, go gruff dude. It's crazy, this guy is crazy.
Speaker 2:He's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's. He's crazy man. I'd never seen him a dude drink a beer and be totally fine afterwards, and not yeah, you drink a beer in heaven. He's all like dude. I need to drink more often up here and he was balls to the wall.
Speaker 2:You gotta have the summit.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, he had a summit beer and then saw man, I hear a head of pelican.
Speaker 3:He cracked it open as a tall boy. It's like I was like oh I never, had that one. He's like you want to like right break it down and, and you know, nick had been waiting up on the summit for 40 minutes for me to get up there and I got there and on, so he was like hey. I think we start going down. I you know I'm like, okay, but he's being cold, Nick's being cold.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll finish my beers like, yeah, dude, do what you need to do. And then I'm like, okay, I'm ready to go. And he's like Nick goes down, we're gonna go down the one o'clock shoot. You know, yeah, show them like that's one o'clock. We go down matter across the cow walk and he's looking. He's like, okay, that looks good. So we start coming down that one o'clock shoot. He's down Beneath me and I'm coming down, I'm to towing it down because there's a real steep section. And and next, I know I hear Nick's left and left- yeah, cuz I was coming down.
Speaker 3:I was just freaking to do and I like I looked over my oh yeah, the trail gets really nice, or the not trail, the trucks Hood, and so, okay, I go left. I see it went left and and I see he's making its way down, but it's, it's pretty steep and for us big guys and so for tall guys. And so I hit that left and all of a sudden I'm facing out, I'm walking down like sir Dude crazy.
Speaker 1:If you did that, we'd not be here. Man, we wouldn't be here. That's how steep it is.
Speaker 3:I think just how the snow and ice was that day. For me it was able because I've done it that way, I've went down that way and I'll blow the steps out to them. You know 240 pounds, but it was firm enough, but yet it was popcorn ice coming down. I mean there's a choppy, but it felt good enough. I'm like I come down and they gave me good. He's like, yeah, man, fuck I. Just he's trying to stay stable. And I'm like, okay, I went past him and waited for him and he was like dude, I can get away from these firm rules about the puke. Yeah, dude, I'm gonna go right.
Speaker 2:There's something I want to ask you guys about then coming down. Being a big guy, I'm not so sure what I think about the glissating no, no, it's. I had my axe. I thought I listened to everyone on the technique. I could not slow coming down Adams, st Helens, it was okay.
Speaker 2:I kind of are no yeah, st Helens, I did a little good saving my first time last summer and I could control it a little bit. But coming down, Adams, I was just out of control. I had that thing dug in as hard as I could with. I was cramped and sore in my abs and my obliques. The next day my shoulder but I could not slow down. I was just I was just bombed out of the chute on purpose and Rolled down the hill about 30 more feet with the ice axe in my hand, just because I thought that was safer than going down.
Speaker 2:So. So maybe you can teach me, or maybe you just tell me don't, do it, don't do it.
Speaker 3:I agree. Don't do it my thing on it. I like the same. It has to have the right Right everything to do. I don't know where you were out on Adams when you started at the peak.
Speaker 2:No, whoa, oh, that's where everyone else was going down.
Speaker 3:I guess at what time? At that peak, because the further into the After, a closer to afternoon, it'll start softening up to where you could actually have control in that shoot. But if you start up high or still ice hard like you really don't have any control.
Speaker 3:There was a there was a gal that got into that shoot up high at pikers on Adams and I was up there I thought there was a buddy of mine actually with Heather brother, me and him, some of it. We come down and I'm like, looking at the Glossage, shoot up high, that thing was just nothing but rock hard. There was like there was nothing. This little gal got in there and she was like and started like whining, crying and I'm like you need help out of the shoot. I'm like, right here I'll anchor myself in, I'll grab yuck and Somebody one of her team like oh no, she's fine, and went over there. And I'm like, no, obviously not fine. She's like scared out of her wits, whining and crying. All right, I'll go over here, but halfway down, halfway down Pikers, it was soft. It was started soft up to where you could actually, if you need, to kick your boots in and, and you know, actually control yourself. But up where it's hard, it sucks if you have no control.
Speaker 1:How, how tall are you man? Six three, six three. On a good day, I'm six one. Uh, if, if you could hump up, you can hump down and I'll tell you this. I don't know, that's what that's a decision I made.
Speaker 2:I don't about a third of the way down and I was like I was scared, shitless. Yeah and it was part of it was my knee too, because I was like I had that ice, that yeah, I was dug in as hard as I could like, like I'm, so this whole side of my body was cramped the next day. But I know you're supposed to use your heels to slay down a little too, but I'm worried I'm gonna catch something that's gonna.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the wrong direction. You weren't wearing your crampons. Oh yeah, oh okay. Well the same.
Speaker 2:But I don't even have crampons yet. I got I just got the Micro spikes.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Yeah, at Adams is more of a beast than hood. Hood is Different because it's crowded. So crowded people are out there for themselves and the weather it is a lot colder at hood than it is in Adams. Adams is quite like prominence is a lot bigger than Rainier. Yeah, yeah, it's so. So it's a. It's a for technical, good Hood. There's a reason why people lose their lives because it's not that technical, it's just they're stupid. They're out there for themselves. So my question to you is you said you played football right In high school.
Speaker 1:You didn't ever had knee problems, what not? What got you besides, you know, drinking beers and eating whatever you want. What got you in to the ultra world, or just doing what we love? It's really the challenge of it, like, can I push myself to do?
Speaker 2:that, if I could go like, I said my first training run, when I once I'd signed up for the inaugural Badger Mountain Challenge, I did 11 miles and I realized, oh shoot, I just ran farther than the 15k, right. So it's kind of push myself to do the next thing, and that was the same thing. Once I got into the game, I thought I'd do the next thing, and that was the same thing. Once I got into the triathlons. Wasn't that I'm competing against the other guys or the other people in the race, but I was what.
Speaker 2:I watched a few friends do it and they had like a live feed from Kona, I believe One year, and I was watching one of the local runners I don't remember who someone's, someone's out there that was trying to watch them because there was live feed on the finish line. I was gonna try and see them come across. Yeah, and just seeing some of these people coming across the finish line and Realizing well, they don't look like a super athlete, and To me it was like if that guy can do it and you can do, I can do it. And that was really. I Don't know if everyone agrees with that mindset, or some people I've talked to over the years Might not agree with it, but for me that was what it was. That was a way to push myself. If that guy can do it, I can do it, yeah, and that's what got you and to the sport, to the, to the ultra distance things Crazy dude.
Speaker 2:But at first it was okay. I did a 50k and, okay, I don't think I'll ever you finish your first 50k at least I've heard other people talk about this while just speak in general. But this was my experience. To you finish your first 50k badger mountain challenge. I remember driving, getting back in the car, hobbling back into the car and making the Exclamation that I'm glad I did that, but I don't think I ever need to do it again. All right, within one to two weeks you're on ultra sign up, looking for the next race, right? What was your next race afterwards for me? I signed up for? Well, that would have been spring 11, I think it was actually the next summer I did. It was badger again for me the next year, but then I got into a couple of the rain shadow running races.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did a Cleolum Ridge 50k and Then I signed up for this was in the next year, my year, second year doing ultra, as I signed up for Mount Spokane 50k. But then I kind of talk myself out of it because they were only a couple weeks apart and I thought, oh, my body won't be ready. So I dropped down to a 25k at Mount Spokane and the main thing I remember about that race is I Thought, oh, it's okay, it's like two hours away and I did it solo. I just yeah, my family gave me the, the hall pass the day off. Mm-hmm, I'll drive up there, I'll do this and once so, once I drop down to the 25k, though it's, it's not just going to Spokane, right, it's Mount Spokane.
Speaker 2:Mount Spokane 30 45 minutes. Yes, once I got home, I realized I drove I was in the car farther about the same amount of time, each direction as I was running Correct and I drove all the way there, did the race and then drove home. Plus, I got a ticket for not having a discover pass Because it was a state park, but it was. It was a good race. I just remember the thinking I don't know if I was really worth driving all the way up there each direction, if I'm not gonna do the full, the full race. But. But for me that's what it was, is and the once you've done the 50k, it's like, okay, what's next? And I always thought I would.
Speaker 2:My first few years in it, I thought I would get a hundred miler. Now I haven't got there yet and I am at the point where I realize it's not gonna happen. But Even with Badger Mountain Challenge in the early years, once they introduced the 50 miler, you know they came up with the Badger quad and in 2017 I signed up for the hundred miler and I I would have been the first, or one of the first, to do the quad all four if I would have finished that year, but then we had. That was our first snow we're getting here. Yeah, that was terrible.
Speaker 2:And I couldn't couldn't do any training. We'd go out with the intention of doing 20, 30 miles and you could only get nine. Yeah, because there's three feet of snow. And I I came up over the winter, came up to that realistic realization I'm not trained up to do a hundred and so reached out to Jason or Julie's husband and I backed off and I did the first. That was the first year we had a 55k because of the new course.
Speaker 1:Going. You got a lot of shit from that dude. I told them was like dude, it's not, it's not a 50k, fix it, fix it, fix it.
Speaker 2:I'll. I don't know if this is right or not, but I take credit because on my Strava after that race I labeled it as badger mountain challenge 55k. Yeah because it was a full 34 miles.
Speaker 1:And I was taking credit.
Speaker 2:I was trying to credit for that extra 5k we did. It's crazy but going back to that like that might have been my peak and my chance to do a hundred, it didn't work out. And then, even even going into six months ago, I still had some ambition I was talking to Caroline about you know, I'd like to still. That's still a goal of mine. I'd like to. It's still finish a hundred miler, but With knee injuries and everything. I don't know if it's realistic you're gonna.
Speaker 1:You're gonna find out, sorry, sorry. You're gonna find out that the doctors, whatever they do, they're gonna they're gonna do less invasive and you're gonna end up being more shocked about the outcome than you are now. It's scary. It's scary. I thought I was done, man. I'm doing more miles now afterwards. I mean, I did add-ons with the torment iskis. I've done so many mountains with the torment iskis. I remember the pain. I know the pain. These doctors are the best in the world and they won't set you up. I know you're at that age. You're like dude. I don't want to make it worse, but they, they. If you do what the doctors orders, yeah. Do what they say, yeah, and you go lightly and work your way up, like you are the mountains, chances are dude. You're gonna be successful and you're gonna be able to do the miles at your own pace, being happy and loving every minute of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, one thing, taking that into account. One thing I've told people when you think about a 100 mile race like like badger I believe, with the cutoffs they have it's you could actually almost walk it. Yeah, look at Ben.
Speaker 3:I had to do that. If you go back through and just I wanted to put this out there they just how incredible athlete you are. I think you're you correct me, I'm wrong your first 50 miler, a badger mountain 50 miler, I think it was. It was under 10 hours.
Speaker 2:It was 9 59.
Speaker 3:I believe it was somewhere it was under 10 hours, so to put that no joke dude.
Speaker 2:That's not that in perspective. I hit the wall at McBee.
Speaker 3:Okay, I want to put this a little bit of I don't know exact time. But we all know who Candice Burt is. Right, you know who Candice is. She ran the badger mountain 50 miler and came in right around nine hours and she Runs the two and she runs every day and she's that big around and she's an incredible athlete.
Speaker 2:I think I was racing about her pace. Actually at that year I did the Clial and Ridge Okay when. James was still the race, so I'm just saying that's how incredible you are.
Speaker 3:Yeah like this you, yeah, the mindset, the body, the Whatever, the push to get it done, and I don't think, whatever you got going on with your knee, I think if you get that figured out like Nick was saying, you know the doctors and that you might come at a different level once you get everything fixed You'd be like I don't, I don't think, don't give up on a hundred mile distance, man, I think you would have it. Who's your doc?
Speaker 1:Where is it at?
Speaker 2:Where's Marils try to say the orthopedics Marils doing the surgery, but I see Eric Lowe, his physician's assistant. Okay, yeah, going back to that, you're bringing up some more glory days here.
Speaker 3:Hey, going back to that glory days, you that fifth, that first 50 miler was 2015.
Speaker 2:I think that was the first year they introduced the 50 miler. Because here's one thing for me, I and Badger, I don't agree. Personally, I don't agree with Letting someone take a 50 mile finish if they sign up for the hundred right.
Speaker 1:That's just my personal opinion on a lot of because you train differently, but but a lot of people come here thinking it's flat. Yeah and they get tore up. Yeah, that's that's a challenge being the director that he is and the reason why Badger mountains, the largest in the state he he's.
Speaker 2:He's one of the best for reason. Oh no, I don't have any problems with that's Jason's decision to make. Oh yeah, I'm not saying I'm not saying he shouldn't make that, I'm just saying for me, like I remember our friend Chris, when Chris pole signed up I think it was Chris he signed up for the hundred. He came in he didn't want to take a 50 mile finish, so he walked up the stairs and then walked back down and to me that's the right decision. If you signed up for something, chris pole.
Speaker 2:Yeah you signed up or something, you finish it. So the first month the year they had the 50, though that was a different opportunity. So, yes, I'm gonna go for that. I don't have to make it the whole hundred miles. Yeah, and it was a step up. So it's ultra athlete. I know ultra, real, real ultra runners don't consider a 50k and ultra. So I had to do so. I have. I wanted to step up, I wanted to do a 50 mile distance and you only had. That was the first year I believe that we had one Luke maybe I'm wrong on that, but I had that mine. I think the 10 hours was my goal that year to finish. But we're talking about pacing and like learning to push yourself the right way. When I hit McBee, I Was like on pace. I realized like coming down with me.
Speaker 2:I was like on pace for eight hours. And I was like holy shit, man, I'm gonna hit eight hours and coming down that horse. I call it the horse trail, the single track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, demoralizing.
Speaker 2:I tweaked well, this was a knee I that's not the same thing I'm dealing with now, but I remember tweaking my knee a little bit coming down just kind of going balls the wall coming down that single track. And Once I got back down to McBee eight station I like hit that proverbial wall, like oh, I was thinking I'm great I'm. I went five hours right now. So technically that was like my fastest 50k. It's crazy you get down, back down to McBee eight station.
Speaker 2:You're right about mile 30 and my good buddy Malachi was there to be my pacer for the rest of the way and I was like thinking I'm gonna oh yeah, I'm like I'm gonna blow this out of the water, but after that point I had hit the wall where I had to like walk around, walk around, walk around. I still came in just barely under 10 hours, which was my original goal, but it was like in the moment, you're like shit Badger, I was gonna be faster than that badger, though 50 mile or 50 miles, 10 mile, 10 hours on badger Damn good dude yeah.
Speaker 3:You bring a lot about guy right.
Speaker 2:If you still living in local ear. No, he's in Virginia now. Okay, so he actually I have. I only talked to him a couple times, but you guys see what Luke did a couple weeks ago or this summer Luke sweet with the quintuple anvil Ironman. It was a yep five-time Ironman and it was in Virginia. So Malachi moved to Virginia about two years ago and Luke gave I saw in his comments on his Instagram that he gave credit to Malachi over helping him do with a lot of his logistics and his crewing Because of Malachi moved with a job a couple a year to two years ago I mean him followed each other on Strava for a long time.
Speaker 3:It was funny. I went out with the BL I don't say it's very much Brandon Latin, yeah, yeah, and it was through snow, mcginn, and we I was like I'll come pick you up because you couldn't get out of his driveway, brandon couldn't and so I'll come get you. I would go hit candy, let's get some Bert, because at that time me and him were like side by side of Bert and we Go up and park candy and started going just before the trail candy, I believe, yeah, before the day for the new trail, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we I drove up, found a spot, parked the truck in the snow every time I go up there, I still think we used to go this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, straight on, yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, we're, we're going and.
Speaker 2:I remember when that trail was like oh, we have a new fancy trail.
Speaker 1:I hated that I'm like what the hell is this and so.
Speaker 3:I got, you know, I put my snow shoes on and Well, yeah, okay, the trail was there because I found a spot, we hit the trail. But then it was just like, straight up there was so much snow and I got the snow shoes and Brandon said I'm gonna take your trekking poles, I'm gonna just go behind you. And he had no snow shoes, he had his speed goats and I'm going up and there's this guy. He's bombing down. It's like almost recklessly Okay coming down. That was first time I like met him. He's like, oh, it was cool, it was really cool. And it was like even Brandon was like that was the first time he met him. But yeah, he was, he was mobbing down. He'd went up the other side of candy and come up and he was coming down. He was just trying it, just like you said, they're trying to train for something through that snow begin.
Speaker 2:And there was like he lived at the that neighborhood at the bottom candy on the the northeast side, can't candy mountain estates, yeah, so he had a house right in there. So he would come up that side that has that little water tower area and he would go straight up there or join the trail wherever you could find it yeah, but yeah and.
Speaker 3:Malachi loved the downhill that was just it was reckless when I was watching coming through that snow. He was post hole and he was like coming almost like Ass over teakettle, coming in and he caught up with us. You know, like we talked about I introduced that and I find that was first time I got to meet him and only time I ever got to meet him. But yeah, I seen you guys always like training together, always running together. He's a stud.
Speaker 2:Well, he was a Like I said he loved the downhill. You're talking with Strava segments so I don't know what it is currently, but that was the, the McBee Road downhill. I know he had that at one point, but he would fly down. It's like two miles from the, from the road crossing back down to the trail head. It's pretty much exactly two miles. Yeah, and he had that trails, that segment for quite a while and we were trained together and that was when I would realize how much better shape he was in the me. They were on the uphills I could. I he was probably holding back a little bit but I felt like on uphills, like that's my strength, and whether it was climbing on a bike or cuz you got the quads yeah climbing on a bike or climbing on Around.
Speaker 2:As a runner I could be. I could hold my own uphill and then flats kind of hold it steady. Down hills I would push, but going downhill I would feel like I was pushing my hardest and I'd be running maybe a 730 pace, going downhill as a 230 pounder and then he would be running a five Something pace and I go. Okay, he's at the bottom of the hill waiting four minutes for me to get down there, right.
Speaker 1:It's a difference, it's a difference.
Speaker 1:in athletics it was difference in body type, and but it made you realize oh shoot, and he's really holding back when we're running together or something the transition man with you know, running ultras and then hiking and changing things up because, dude, I know how serious your entry is, you know, and how hurtful it is with, with the transition, the mountains. What is it about the mountains that Basically tells you or makes you say, hey, I'm gonna take a step back to ultras, I'm gonna hit hiking, I'm gonna hit tracking, I'm going to hit the mountains more? What, what is it? Because you can say, you know what, forget it. I'm gonna go on a bike, just gonna do bike work In your garage or in your room, right, and say forget it, but you're not saying forget it. You are saying, hey, I'm gonna hit the mountains.
Speaker 2:Well, it's that love of being out in nature and being out in the beauty of the trees, the forest, the rocks on a bike. If I could with the cycling, that's a whole. Another thing to me, a Personally with the bike, in bike accident I had, and bicycling in general, that I'm not gonna go back there. As far as outside biking, outside cycling yeah, but Indoor cycling of course. I think that's obvious. You don't get the same. If you can get the part pump, you can get the yeah, yeah, burn the calories, but you're not gonna get that same feeling of being out in nature. And so that's actually with the mountain climbing or just hiking in general. That's one thing that's beautiful about it that we don't get as a trail runner.
Speaker 2:Right enjoying it. Yeah as a trail runner, you're constantly just.
Speaker 1:I love trail running balls of the wall You're going hard.
Speaker 2:You're looking, you're just looking at your footing.
Speaker 2:Basically, yeah, make sure you don't trip, but you don't enjoy the scenery around you and that's the beautiful part about hiking or just mountain climbing you can take it all in, like Malachi. We were just talking about Malachi. Malachi and I did two different times the enchantments loop up at Leavenworth. Mm-hmm, I don't feel like I really in. I'm proud that I did the enchantments loop. I feel like a badass. Yeah, I did the enchantments loop, but I didn't really learn anything about the topography, the mountains, right, the scenery there. If you were hiking or taking it slower, you have the chance to still get the work and the challenge in of climbing that mountain. Yeah, but you get the beauty of Looking around you and seeing what's out there and, as a trail runner, you don't react. I don't believe you get that because you're pushing yourself too hard and your, your focus is more on keep running whenever I can instead of looking around enjoying what's out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna let you know. Man did Whitney. I continue to do mountains, especially after the. You know the torment, iskis, surgery and whatnot. There are sometimes when I feel like I tweaked it a bit. There's because, you know, twist and turn when you have Crampons feels like you know you're, you're stationary, you try to move your feet, don't move with your knee, and it's just like, oh, my goodness, just tweak it. Are you ready for that?
Speaker 2:Well, I know I can handle it. Right. The things you're just talking about actually remind me of when I finally Because I'm not one that'll go to the doctor. I don't like to go to the doctor because they're just gonna tell you to rest. Yeah feel when I finally went to see the doctor this summer before that the tripped Ecuador is because I could. You could tell it's getting bad, it's not getting better.
Speaker 2:Right but you're talking about the twisting and the turning. I couldn't Just mowing my lawn. I still use a push. Not I mean it's motorized, same walk behind more oh yeah and you know you got to stop and make like 90 or 180 degree turns when you're mowing your lawn. I was having to stop and, like I, Remember doing it make the turn on my lawn that's.
Speaker 2:that's one in my brain is like I gotta get this looked at yeah and so it's knowing, knowing that I got bad enough that you got to get it fixed and got slowed down a little bit. But Once it's is fixed, it will be a sense of testing it and, yeah, deciding what's okay, what you can do, what you can't do. Like I said, maybe I'll be able to keep, maybe I could just start running on it again, but at the same time for longevity and not needing another surgery for five years from now bright.
Speaker 2:Right now, my mindset is Take it slow and I still want to do fun things. I want to do adventurous things, yeah, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm gonna but with your mindset too.
Speaker 1:With your mindset, you're gonna be like I'm feeling pretty good, let's, let's go slow. But you're gonna be like, all right, let's do, let's try it again, let's try it again.
Speaker 2:That happens with any injury. Yeah, like I told you, even just a few weeks ago, when I tried to run because I was walking the dog, I didn't want to take 40 minutes to do two miles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I decided to run. It felt good, it felt fine, but then, later that afternoon, I was regretting it.
Speaker 1:What's, what's the mountain that's on your mind right now, that you've already solidified with the wife?
Speaker 2:Well, so we did South sister, we did St Helens and we did Adams. The next one To me would either be hood or Baker. Caroline's never done Baker. She really wants to do Baker and so I'm pardon me thinks that'll be the next one, but it could be a possibility that it would depend on planning. It would depend on who's got what going on. But there's stuff. Those are probably the two that would be on our list.
Speaker 1:Baker's more technical than hood I think. It's colder too.
Speaker 2:She's on glacier peak too, which I have not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or maybe she hasn't she's a beast dude, I know her, but she's all right, that's one, that's. That's the highlight. All right, she's all right. Just tell her hey, that too that too.
Speaker 2:maybe it's she's all right, she's all right in the description.
Speaker 1:We'll be like her name. She's all right. No, I'm catching, that's why I'm yes, yes, I, I have it down dude. Don't worry, I do keep track.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm hoping that Heather and her Hang out a little more like when, when we've been out, like I said, at Paper Street, you know catching you there, and it seemed like Heather and her hit it off really well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and didn't? We Was the. We get the hang out at the rodeo too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're rodeo yeah sick invite.
Speaker 2:It wasn't my invite for her OP's birthday, yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that was that was cool. And then, yeah, I got freakin JJ took my phone.
Speaker 2:I'm freaking got you know, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:Selphie with JJ. He took my phone, all that arena, mm-hmm. So no, I just yeah, it's always good times with John man.
Speaker 2:No, but for her for sure. That was actually part of my walking orders, and coming here tonight was Touch base with Tracy. I like it, let's, let's get together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, the lady said that get all the Tracy.
Speaker 2:And let's do something. I know we have to hang out with you guys. That Sam's one night.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was you guys at the rodeo. The rodeo, and like we roll Paper Street, was just bumping into each other with it, wasn't?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, it was fun yeah. Okay, I, I'm keeping an eye on it. Man, I told her I Don't have me too, but I know she's like don't let yeah, Dan turned into a three-hour. For real, what? What one of these days we're gonna beat, we're gonna go for, we're gonna do a Rogan. Well we're gonna do a Rogan. That's gonna be a lot of leaks.
Speaker 2:We're gonna be like taking a break now that I'm here, like it's been an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:Almost. We start a little late.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we more of this and more of this. Now I see how it can happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can have it do Dan Dan's the man. There's a reason why Dan the man, even even the girls like Dan the man, come.
Speaker 3:Yes, dan the man, she's honest, like I asked her, like a man here, like hey, you know the going. Second, Like. I was cool, it's sock. Wow please turn us, that's what my day went to right you know, with that we all have daughters here, and that was another thing that I just was remembering that you were a softball dad for a long time as well, and actually ramming each other up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, that's how we actually got to know each other better. We knew each other through the running scene, but our daughters were both catchers His daughter's a couple years younger than mine. Yeah, but we would run into each other at the that's some tournaments in Cilla. You're right, that's how we kind of bonded a little bit more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and yeah my my daughter just she's. She's Junior right now and and it sounds like some similar things that your daughter had went through, because she's like it's softball, it's not a priority, but I'm like boys are you're no boys, though it's like other things, like I don't know, it's just like that's. It's not your priority. We've been paying this much, yeah, what you know, but it's like trying to like not push her, but just like volleyball yeah it's like that is how good she is.
Speaker 3:I'm like that will pay you. She already in a Jumpstart for you know college like a. She'll have her a when she graduates. And it's like yeah, softball, what, how good you are right now, you will get the next two years paid through softball. Yes, but she's, she has a job now. She works at the Coliseum and there's like all this other stuff that she's just like softball is not a priority and I'm like right man but you know you're they're gonna have to like it.
Speaker 1:Just like us, man. We like, we have to like doing what we do day in, day out.
Speaker 3:I'd have compassion.
Speaker 2:You know we're we're fathers of daughters and it's like right with my it's exactly what you're saying with my daughter, who my middle daughter, emma is the soft was the softball player. Yeah, and I'll say it point blank, she is a badass. I Would say she was one of the best catchers in the state, going through the level she was playing at and this was. This is young, you know, but as a dad is like as a dad, you're so proud, I was so proud of her, what she's doing dance.
Speaker 2:She could play catcher and she could control a game and, but at some point it didn't mean as much to her as it meant to me. Right, and she was good at it, but she didn't love it. And she also, to be honest, playing catcher from eight years old through 14 years old. It messed her knees up.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:It was so she. She didn't even play past age 14, which that sounds so young now. Yeah she's 20 now, but her 14 year old year she actually told her mom Before she would tell me she wasn't really into it as much we, you know. It's like you're saying you've been paying for travel ball oh man, through this, and it wasn't. It wasn't about the cost, but it was more about I. I thought she loved it and I loved it because I was like a proud, proud dad moment right.
Speaker 2:But you kind of had to come to that real. For me it was coming to that realization of if she doesn't love it she shouldn't be putting this much into it. And she was at we same Tri-City or we were regular to the Tri-City or the PX even back then because, taken Besides me for my ankle, achilles and planar fasciitis, so it's her for her knee issues and her going into her 14 year old years, or 14 you. She basically finally Just hold her mom first and came to tell me like I don't really want to do this anymore. I'm like, well, let's finish off this year, mm-hmm. And she was with Northwest elite that year and they ended up with their division, their league or whatever their division was. They won the state tournament for 14 you in Moses Lake and that was like the greatest thing to watch as a dad.
Speaker 2:But knowing you're going into that, knowing it was pretty much knowing it was for last year doing it, which was a big chunk of our life for from her eight-year-old year on six years every weekend throughout the spring and summer and fall, going to tournaments and but I always think this was like her greatest moment, was not her greatest moment, but as far as softball, they won that game, they won this big tournament. It was like the state level tournament and she would like turn to me. She was like dead and she was like holding your cleats. She walked over the garbage can in the dugout and she did the mic drop, no, dropped your cleats into the garbage.
Speaker 2:And I knew what that meant. Yeah, she knew what that meant and it was like it was like a closure moment, like Okay, you're done with this. And she had some offers the next year to play for other teams and we had to think about it and okay, well, do you want to do it or not? And she, she decided not to. But they move on, and I'm not trying to say this is what's going on with your daughter at all, but with my daughter it was like you got to come to that realization of like, let them do what they want to do.
Speaker 1:It's not what, exactly what dad?
Speaker 2:Sucks and they can. They can succeed and have their own life and Do great. Do great at other things.
Speaker 3:So, with the neat thing, she's going in the 20th to get cleanup no, already 16 you, she, her big thing is is it?
Speaker 3:She is great, she's awesome, that she's everything. Her thing is that she wants college and so she, she wants to. You know she's trying to think outside. She's like her thought to me. She told me I like I can't argue with it. It was like if softball is not gonna push me through the college, I need to start my academics. And she still loves it. It's just, it's not a priority right now.
Speaker 3:She, she has a job and and she has other things going on in her life. She's 16, almost 17, but it's just I, you sound like you and me, you're, you are suffering what I'm feeling and it's like you know, she was supposed to play in Vegas this last weekend but because she's back on the angels now, which, with that said, she's the only one outside of the organization for the 16 you Team. So Bob Benson that runs angels organization there's, he has them all practiced together to 18, to 16, to 14, and she was the only, she's the only one that they picked up out of the organization for the 16 you, just because that's just how good she is. But she, just I get she's losing that passion and it sounds like they, you, you went through that with, with your daughter, and that's where we can relate. We can relate a little bit of that. But yeah, definitely yeah, we had a clicking moments in Sila.
Speaker 1:I've never seen you, like, you know, like, hey, hey what's going on, but but yeah. I remember to.
Speaker 3:I'm going through some things. You know, like I said she's she's gonna have some some cleanup on her knee. Did she me issues? Like you said, your daughter the 20th she trying to get it through. There's winter workouts, there's we have a schedule after High school ball With the angels. But she's wanting to get it done sooner and later. The water she can recover through that Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope that all goes good, because that's more important. You know, like as a dad, that they can live. They have their teenager and they have the rest of their life to live, right, without being a knee injuries, right. You know like we're feeling now as 40 something year old right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah they have to deal with as a teenager because of but I Would say because of being a catcher throughout their teens. But I also know people who play catcher and Don't have any knee injuries, right? So Chris Albertson was a college Level, top level, college Catcher.
Speaker 1:He'll say his knees feel perfect right, and now look what he's doing. It is a man. But so with that analogy of your daughter at 14 years old, it almost sounds like you got that analogy just coming in here saying you know, hiking, trekking outdoors, mountains climbing is what you want. Are you almost putting up your ultra shoes? Because you're still gonna wear ultra shoes on the trail?
Speaker 2:You're gonna find out mountaineering boots suck and you're gonna wear my loam peaks, then I need to get some the waterproof.
Speaker 1:Because I'll tell you what I always carry two pairs with me. It's either it's Trail shoes and then mountaineering boots, when it's time, you know. And but Do you feel Right now that analogy works with you too?
Speaker 2:I do. It's well, stick with what you love. You got to find something you love to do that makes you feel good.
Speaker 2:I'm and I'm talking more about our recreational time or past time, our Exercise time, not not about work, but, yeah, find what makes you feel good, do what you can do. I might not be an ultra runner anymore, but I can still go out and push myself, find new challenges and Find new limits, and that might be a mountain, that might be a New job, it might be a new trail that we can do. What we can do and that's what all of us should find is something that Inspires us and challenges us to be as best we can be yeah, well, you, you inspire me, man, like seriously, not so much being a Clyde still, but the fact that you could manage me.
Speaker 1:And just what are you doing?
Speaker 3:I can't read that I.
Speaker 1:Can't read that. No, but you can know you can Dan. God damn messing it up, man. I was gonna be all, oh yeah, this perfect clothes. I'm worried man, because the last thing I want to do is piss off the lady you know, and I have to see her tomorrow. She working tomorrow, right? Yeah, no, okay, we will, though, we will then, thanks, thanks, I've been doing a lot, I, I've been doing a lot of changes these days, man, and it shows, numbers, show, oh, Before we close out, though, we have my route.
Speaker 2:What was one of my questions to you on the text thread? Getting ready for this, I need a sticker, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:No a the has, there you go. Yeah, yeah, I was like hey, he's gonna want that.
Speaker 2:I know, there we go. Yeah, I already had it already, I got these ones. I've got these ones already.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:This is the one I wanted, I think bruise on.
Speaker 1:Here's the last one the before the rebrand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're rebrant. Oh my bad.
Speaker 3:Because we had some bruise tonight yes.
Speaker 1:This the disclaimer Disclaim. We got to disclaim it because, if not, dude that's awesome, they're random places.
Speaker 3:Yep trailhead and stuff where they shouldn't be, and we'll give me percussion, and you just be responsible. What a more you're supposed to?
Speaker 2:Know, I understand the rebrand. I think it's Perfect. Yeah, but I appreciate also like being part of the bruise. Yeah cuz, yeah, that's part of my life.
Speaker 1:It's still. It's still there. It's still there, man, it's just having these kids on. I don't want to like you know. Yeah, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2:But I understand perfectly.
Speaker 1:But I wanted a sticker that had the original before we close out, I gotta ask you, man, one of the staple questions favorite.
Speaker 3:Adam Sandler movie dude.
Speaker 2:Hmm, my favorite Adam Sandler movie is Billy Madison. Okay, dan, it's been a while. I haven't watched them as much recently as I did when I was younger. Yeah, but besides happy Gilmore, billy Madison, there's some other good ones in there, though there's more the more recent ones I like for other reasons, but original, like guy movies, no, yeah, original. Original is that okay? Yeah, you guys okay with that answer in the man.
Speaker 1:What's the next question, mister? I'm gonna try to write and I'm like what so? Okay, we got what do?
Speaker 2:you got here down, so Before I crack another beer I probably should have a dry foam.
Speaker 1:So, you're not, you know so do you eat peanut butter? Do the?
Speaker 3:challenges.
Speaker 2:I do eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches now and then.
Speaker 3:I do how. How do you make a peanut butter jelly sandwich?
Speaker 2:Well, let me tell you, I've got my old standby and I've got a new original. Not original, but a new way to do it.
Speaker 1:Uncrustable. If you say uncrustable and if Well so.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you, I think I'm crustable, I think uncrust on. Crustables are okay, it's a beyond. Yeah, I don't mind them. But I've always been a. My old standby with peanut butter and jelly has been I like the jiff, creamy peanut butter and strawberry jelly or strawberry jam Okay, strawberry jam. That's always been my thing and I prefer, like the, the franz buttermilk bread, like the white bread but I'm also that's dirt.
Speaker 2:I also love a good sweet bread when it's once the right time, but the new thing over the last couple years has got to be Peanut butter and honey, with the two sisters honey Caroline works. The cream honey. The creamed honey is perfect from two sisters honey. It's called two sisters honey and Caroline works there at the farmers market. But Strawberry jam or the creamed honey is the right way to go.
Speaker 3:What's the ratio?
Speaker 2:She's a ratio of peanut butter to jam or honey, either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not just jam, let's go jam. No honey, let's not bring her into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay ratio of jam jam to peanut butter. It's got to be at least 50 50. Sometimes I like a little more peanut butter, though, and sometimes I change back and forth, or with or I like crunchy or creamy. Sometimes creamy is perfect. Usually I like creamy best, but sometimes crunchy hits the spot. Just right, what, what?
Speaker 3:brand of peanut butter.
Speaker 2:I usually think I buy Jeff.
Speaker 1:She hasn't changed.
Speaker 2:Skippy once a while. If I'm at the store and I see both of them, whatever's on sale, I'll buy, but I think I usually go with the Jeff nice nice, are you cracking another one?
Speaker 1:We're a, we're tame, we're almost, we're not two hours, we're not ours, but we are empty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, god does that? Switching. Switching from oh yeah to dead guy.
Speaker 1:I only go there to get trashed, so hopefully you don't get trashed. Dude PJ, it's funny how these ladies just work on us, right, it's funny. I'm a. I Work with the lady. She's the greatest of them all. She's just so. She's your hype lady. She's everybody's hype lady, it's. It's pretty cool, man, it's pretty cool. It's great. I can see it. She's alright. She's alright. Yeah, you said it, not me, she's, because, hey, you know what she did. She's. She's like. You know, I can't wait to listen to that one. So that's why I was like she's alright.
Speaker 2:I got your text the other day, right at two thirty or so. That's today your text of this, and hey, you gotta get you on the show again. And I came home and I told Carrie oh, I mean Carolyn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, don't, don't mess that. Oh, dude, she corrected me.
Speaker 2:I got a text from Nick today. Oh yes, he came and saw me Work and so do you want to have another show? And I said, oh, is that my job to tell him? Oh, no, no, no, I'll reach out to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Why is this funny? Because I reached out to you and like, hey, you know your show. And next you know like, let me know, it's your show, do you want me there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want you to be there.
Speaker 3:Okay, what, what time you like, I don't know. And then you threw it out there in a group. It's like when am I gonna?
Speaker 2:be there.
Speaker 3:Well, like I want to make sure it was cool and we're always cool and, like I said, I'm very inspired by you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I knew I was. I was obviously comfortable, just come on with Nick, but I'd yes if I would be okay if you came and I was all on board with that, because hey. I know, though, when I Started listening to the podcast is when you were on. Yeah, it's always better to have more. The more people here, the better.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you let me come and Kyle Paulson will probably be calm, because he's gonna come.
Speaker 1:He's gonna come he will come you know, how's gonna make him come?
Speaker 2:yes, they're not claysills, but they.
Speaker 1:They're not but Kyle Paulson. He runs like a seven-year-old man. I can, I can tell you that he yeah.
Speaker 2:But there was while I was in the triathlon world, so there was like a little change in the data. I think when I first got involved with triathlons, claysillia had to be 220 or more Yep, and so that's what I consider a Claysill.
Speaker 2:I think after a couple years of I was involved, usat changed it so that, like, some races would have a Claysill division and some would not. Yeah, and it was. They changed it to 205 and I'm like, or 200. I'm like you know what? It's not fair, it's not quite the same. Like you can have, yeah, a guy like our good friend BL, yeah, like he's 65 and he's 205. Yeah really lean, that's not the same as a Dan Fielder or a John Millet.
Speaker 1:Big boys gotta push a little harder and so I still consider 220 the.
Speaker 2:Claysill mark and I was involved with triathlons for five, six years, maybe a little more. There were some races had a Claysill division and some did not. Here's my claim to fame in my own mind, as I never entered Every class. Every time I could enter as a Claysill I was first place, nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you rock. You rocked it on the trail scene here, here, there and in between, I remember you know a jump off Joe, marathon, half marathon. I ran and you ran it, we ran it together. And I remember you know treading up, jump off, joe, up the road here you're bombing down like Right behind them. You're just chasing the lead like, but you're coming down. I'm still working my way up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and some of those years I was under 220. If we're going for the true Claysill A little while, but not right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not my, even my peak.
Speaker 2:I think when I did court lane I think one to court lane, ironman, I was 225 because I was training like an MF.
Speaker 3:But I still had to eat a lot too, for all that I was 222 25 when I did court lane.
Speaker 1:I'm a little more than that right then, don't want to piss off the lady. Nope, you got anything else and any more PBJ like how much honey Do you know?
Speaker 3:what you sure Caroline's honey. So he'll take a hundred percent of honey on a PBJ.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:This is some good honey.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:Right so.
Speaker 1:So, john man, is that everything that you thought it was Just?
Speaker 2:being here. Yeah, yeah, of course, and now that I'm here, I see how it could turn into three hours teacup studio.
Speaker 1:So do you think, do you think we can try for three hours when you Well, post, post op. Post yeah yeah, like just say down the road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I was invited back With some good company and have some good experiences to talk about. Yeah, we go for that. Okay, maybe our Mount Hood experience, our Mount Baker experience, whatever we got it, whatever we have to look forward to baby, do that.
Speaker 1:It's. It's cold up there, man. It's colder up there than it is in Alaska, man it is known for that. It is yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know about that. I mean, I lived up there in Bellingham my early 20s. I was in Bellingham for about five years so I heard a lot about it, but I wasn't into snowboard.
Speaker 1:I'm still not snowboarding, skiing, any of that, that area is known for the being colder than anywhere else in the world. It's the, the, the Canadian jet stream, or whatever that just comes right down and it just brings it, just brings it like nobody's business. I'll tell you this, john, if you're you tell me. I don't hang out Westside. I'll make an exception with you, man. I'll experience it first with you.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something, then maybe we should make an experience to go up into the wallows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm picky with, I'm picky with the wallows, but how far East are you willing to take yourself this? This is coming up here, this coming up here. Well, how far east? When I say far east, I'm not saying like eastern east, east coast. What I'm saying is east side of the cascades, maybe Rockies.
Speaker 2:I'm up for all that. That's things that my family wants to do. Yeah, I've never been to Colorado besides a layover in the airport that's when I say I want to see, I want to see the Rockies. I want to see Denver. I want to early the mountains over there. I want to see Montana, more For caroline and I would yeah, you can see that with her.
Speaker 1:She's all right.
Speaker 2:And or our honeymoon. We went to glacier, we went to Montana a little bit, but I want to see more of the Rockies. I want to get up in some of those mountains. Um, that definitely something we want to do.
Speaker 1:Here's a thought how about the three Clydesdale take team peak Dude, could you imagine that? Which peak is that? Utah, yeah, that that the a king. That that's something to think about. Just think about it. Not the three amigos, the three Clydesdale take on kings peak.
Speaker 3:Well, we all got to be over 220 right. I don't think I would be.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I've read lower than that in my life.
Speaker 1:I don't know, man, I I've really changed my, my whole appetite, my whole food intake. I mean, you saw me, I was doing Pendleton dude. I'm really doing my best and I think I'm gonna be less than that dude.
Speaker 3:Hopefully it was crazy. I I want to share. This is funny because I think that our podcast we did the last one. I'm out here and I'm talking about baby's mama. I'm out here and I have the door open and here, here come the neck. He comes up. He's like grab my cab. He's like, oh, look at that. And I'm like I'm getting molested. And he's like, oh yeah, he's getting less. It, it's my baby's mama on the other line. This thing's like I didn't dude, I didn't know you're doing that. Damn them calves.
Speaker 2:That's dude, I didn't even read this, your baby's mama. Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm like I'm talking to her just about things and stuff and he's like he. He just I had the door open them because I'm like I'm here, and he just I had a leg hanging out of my shorts.
Speaker 2:Nick comes up. I'm proud of my calves too. Right, that's carolina, about my freaking, freaking faith.
Speaker 1:You know, I drive her to school and everything, I work there or whatever and she's like dad, cover those cast. You look like you have two, three, four golf balls. And I was like, yeah, well, you know why is because we've got to carry our own weight.
Speaker 2:It's graceful pants season.
Speaker 3:A picture of Nick like a my work buddy, ben, that he's less wasting on. You was like. Right, he's like look it's quad and all that I'm like.
Speaker 2:I don't look, I didn't look at nick that way until he said that's actually where I feel a deficit. Like I know I haven't been doing as much Running and trails. I feel like my legs are like getting smaller. But I think. I think they're still alright, but they still look smaller than me. You know what that?
Speaker 3:said that I have a lot of downhill segments and I tell, like everybody is, like I got, I got the legs to hold this and right yeah, that's where you get sore, on the downhill, the quads. I could pound that out, like I mean just a lot of the downhill segments. I'm top 10 and I just Got that impact is like Daya Exponential right.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you're way too 50, but you got how much weight on the downhill coming down?
Speaker 1:All right, yeah, cheryl downhill, but not as big bodies. But so you go in for surgery when?
Speaker 2:It's December 21st. That's my birthday, your birthday happy birthday, it's going great.
Speaker 1:It's gonna go great.
Speaker 2:It's meant to be in the last year I started a new career. I'm a fifth grade teacher now. Yeah 18 years as a manager at FedEx.
Speaker 1:Congrats, so I.
Speaker 2:No, I never did.
Speaker 1:Congrats, congrats, brother, congrats.
Speaker 2:I. I scheduled this so that I because they say you're gonna need two weeks off, I don't want to take two weeks off of work, or I can't take two weeks off of work. So I scheduled it going to this Christmas break Congrats, I'm gonna have like a thursday, friday off and then two weeks of recovery. So right, my whole christmas break, new year's break, is gonna be on crutches limping around my house and then we'll see how it goes from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'll, you'll, you'll be surprised on how much Will function without crunches, but yeah, I mean, I figure it's not gonna feel much worse than it does right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the problem will be trying to push it and limit recovery. Yeah, if I try to push further than.
Speaker 3:I should. Why do you think it's crazy? Because my daughter we talked about, she was having some cleanup done on the 20th Because that's through that winter break.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's meant to be, dude, it's meant to be what's what's orthopedic?
Speaker 3:Fitz.
Speaker 2:Fitzgerald. Yeah, so same Same place. Yeah, fitzgerald and Merrill are the two knee surgeons at triceratopedics and one of my co-workers is actually having the same Manuscript surgery one of the other teachers that kind of elementary Having her knee done on the 20th by. Fitzgerald, because his day is the Wednesdays.
Speaker 1:He's gonna be exhausted.
Speaker 2:My doctor Merrill Fitzgerald does surgeries on Wednesday. My doctor Merrill does surgery on Thursday, so mine's the next day. So, I'll be one day behind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Did they tell you how long recovery is gonna be?
Speaker 2:It's been a month since I was in there scheduling this, but what I remember is that couple Couple weeks on crutches and should be able to be back on it within, you know, maybe a month for okay getting so far as like walking, hiking.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna like. We've already just, we've already discussed, I'm not gonna try to run on. Yeah, I've already taken what's, what's. What are we in now? November? Yeah, and it was August, first of August, when I got back from Ecuador. Yeah, it's been three and a half months. I've only run once, twice since then. I'm not gonna push it.
Speaker 1:You're nipping up the pan, dude. You got any?
Speaker 2:miles. Got any miles. My main thing is letting it recover and yeah, and being able to live my life.
Speaker 3:I want to hike.
Speaker 2:I want to climb, maybe the high impact stuff like the running is done. If it feels good, I'm sure I'm gonna try it, yeah but I'm also a little bit afraid of, to be honest, a little bit afraid of making it worse than so. I'm gonna take it slow.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing you ever been to Smith Rock.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, done it once with. Caroline, the misery hill. I don't know the exact route we took, but we went up and around like the monkey head or, okay, the heck it's called so you can spend the whole weekend there and I hit the same trail.
Speaker 1:Let's, let's, let's do this. You haven't been, you haven't been.
Speaker 2:So springtime hits, march, before badger even talk about wanting to get back to bend here soon before badger, let's hit up Smith Rock and it's trust me, you'll, you'll love it. You'll love it. I've been there once.
Speaker 1:That's great yeah yeah, but you've been to where everybody else does. Dude Smith Rock is my, my stomping ground. I do that in less than a day drives people nuts, my wife nuts, because she's like, how do you do it? I just do it, but let's, let's, let's, let's plan on doing that that sounds like a good plan because they got a great watering hole right there. No, no, that, that's uh, that's uh, redmond, redmond.
Speaker 2:Redmond had a great brewery Initiative wild ride.
Speaker 1:Wild ride is good. They have one in primeville now but it's initiative is where you need to go and just ride down the road.
Speaker 2:When I went to wild ride a year and a half or so ago, and it was at a good time there, I was on a work trip for FedEx and I liked the brewery and I liked the little food truck circle to head, yes, but down the road is initiative and prime beer, but uh. I have that same tentacle from three creeks, that's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1:Um, but nah, dude, I don't want to upset the lady, but, uh, I appreciate your time and I really do Think thank you and the lady for coming here. Seriously, it means, it means a lot and the fact that you know you're going through what you're going through it sucks. But don't count yourself out. I know you haven't. I feel that analogy is really gonna hit you. I think there's more in the tank. I think just go at will, go at your own pace, knowing that I went through it and continue to do what I do. Yes, there's some moments, but, dude, I feel you'll have those moments, but you're gonna feel like, dude, what these docs are doing these days are For our best interest, especially us outgoing mountain climbing, ultra running asses out there, dude, they, you know they do what we say. So, john, don't count it out, man, let's do some miles together, let's do some mountains together. You're always, you know I can't count the lady out, but whenever you can Now have the lady around, give me a call.
Speaker 2:Or my.
Speaker 1:Give up. Give me a call, dude, you're. You know, I'm always down.
Speaker 2:But this is on the record or not. I'm always down For doing stuff with her. I'm always down. Yeah stuff with the boys, and she would totally Be fine with that too, but she's also bad ass enough to come with us. Oh yeah, she is badass dude.
Speaker 1:But she's all right.
Speaker 2:I don't count her out, but she would be Down for letting me go out. Yeah, you.